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The more I think about Hydrogen the less I see it being useful.
Even after you take the massive efficiency hit of producing it and compressing it, there are still issues.
Still it’s the idea that won’t go away.

The only thing hydrogen has going for it is energy density. That could make it useful for some applications. It’s not easy to store however and it’s woefully inefficient.

We don’t need hydrogen trains that’s dumb. It would be better to electricity the lines.
I can’t see why hydrogen buses would be better than battery buses. They might be cheaper to produce than batteries but will always be more expensive to run.
You might think the energy density works for air travel. Even then yes pure water exhaust has to be better than burnt kerosene, but there are still likely problems with emitting large amounts of water vapour at high altitudes. I don’t have the physics background to do the calculations but con trails are known to be problematic.
 

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Quite why buses et al cannot be supplied with electricity via overhead cables - trolleybuses - has not been explained. Batteries are necessary for off-piste routes, but not the majority of the time.
 

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Quite why buses et al cannot be supplied with electricity via overhead cables - trolleybuses - has not been explained. Batteries are necessary for off-piste routes, but not the majority of the time.
Agree for city buses for sure. Should be mostly overhead cable with a battery to fill any gaps.
For rural routes and coach I guess it’s a bit harder, but even then We could electrify motorways. There’s a trial running in Germany for trucks with overhead lines on a stretch of autobahn. Looks like a good solution. They envisage the trucks running on overhead lines on the motorway then leaving with a fully charged battery for the last portion of the journey.
 

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We don’t need hydrogen trains that’s dumb. It would be better to electricity the lines.
Quite why buses et al cannot be supplied with electricity via overhead cables - trolleybuses - has not been explained.
The main problem with both is capital cost and maintenance. For little used routes it's not cost effective, so some sort of independent power supply is 'better'. That could be hydrogen, battery or something else.
 

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Governments will always support taxable fuels, this is IMO why hydrogen keeps appearing, Its easy as the dispensing mechanism is fixed. Electricity can be had from a house socket - so impossible to tell what its used for, and the real horror is home solar from a government POV, no central control, vehicles running on untaxed fuel :eek:
 

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Governments will always support taxable fuels, this is IMO why hydrogen keeps appearing, Its easy as the dispensing mechanism is fixed. Electricity can be had from a house socket - so impossible to tell what its used for, and the real horror is home solar from a government POV, no central control, vehicles running on untaxed fuel :eek:
Agreed
Cost of production, transportation to filling station and the environmental savings are limited.
 

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We're going to end up with all vehicles electric, but with some PHEV, which will be hydrogen, for the long distance ones. The batteries will fall in price and increase in power density and hydrogen will become more and more marginalised. There will be lots of hydrogen though, but mainly for fixed installations for storage, so it will still fall in price.

Tax isn't going to be an issue - that isn't why the government are so tardy. They'll switch to road usage pricing. The reason they are being tardy on kicking oil companies into touch is that they make up such a large part of the stock market and pension funds - their share price has been knocked by disinvestment campaigns, so the dividends they are paying are huge, so great for income. It is going to be painful when that falls away. Oh, and I'd guess there is a lot of loyalty due to party funding by big oil.
 

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buses are the absolute perfect candidates for removable batteries. Instead of faffing around with hydrogen, they just need sets of draw like batteries or a battery replacement system, so when a bus passes by the main bus stations, out with the old, in with the new and you got another 50kwh. batteries charge at the station. or fast wireless chargers on the bus stops, literally the buses would fast charge as they stop and people get in and out, would probably be enough to keep them running endlessly
 

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Except the energy density (in terms of kWh/kg) is too low for batteries to be sensible for long distance coaches / HGVs - too much of the payload will have been replaced by the batteries. The only options are H2 or overhead cables and pantographs like trains - and the former is more likely as the amount of stations could be limited to a very small number with only a minimal visual impact as opposed to the latter being very high cost and with significant visual impact and with huge reliability issue that are hard enough to control on railways with a very small number of operators constrained to tight standards (the thought of a single rogue operator bringing down a mile of cable on the M1 in rush hour is beyond the pale).
 

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There is great piece on the BBC website here:
There are couple of great quotes in there:
"So hydrogen lost the head-on battle for the motor car."
and the slightly more far-fetched:
"...it looks as though a technology that lost its key battle against battery cars two decades ago will still find a place in the zero-carbon economy of tomorrow."
 

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There is great piece on the BBC website here:
There are couple of great quotes in there:
"So hydrogen lost the head-on battle for the motor car."
and the slightly more far-fetched:
"...it looks as though a technology that lost its key battle against battery cars two decades ago will still find a place in the zero-carbon economy of tomorrow."
All sourced from Bamford - you do have to admire their media relations - I wonder how much they paid the BBC for that :unsure: ;)
 

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They're now calling it 'Blue Hydrogen'.

Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

It's made from natural gas...
Well if they take the red CO2 out of the brown gas they get blue H2 (think of your colour wheels :p ).

The only remaining issue is where to put the red CO2 - and there they are relying on the fairy dust solution of carbon storage. I'd rather my Daughter believed in fairies at the bottom of the garden than carbon storage being practical long term - it'll certainly cause less long term problems.

Remind me, how much have the Bamfords funded the Conservative party? :rolleyes::unsure:
 

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