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Hyundai Ioniq 28
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
News of a lot of Chinese budget value cars on the way that could cause a lot of trouble to legacy manufacturers. But is that what will happen?

 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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If they can be bothered with homologation processes of multiple other countries, whilst they still have a hot domestic market to buy all their product?
 

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If they can be bothered with homologation processes of multiple other countries, whilst they still have a hot domestic market to buy all their product?
I may be paranoid, but I would think the Chinese government would, erm, be partial to having their domestic companies try and push western incumbents out of a market that is about to explode. Or at least get some beach heads established for future endeavours.
 

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My best guess is that China is where Japan was in the mid-1970's right now. Largely copying Western design, perhaps with less than great aesthetics and perhaps not yet meeting standards for things like corrosion resistance and build quality we've got used to. Who can really forget how bloody awful some of the early Datsun's were, for example?

Japan learned very quickly, though, and within a few years were producing cars that were probably the most reliable in the world. I strongly suspect the same may well happen with China. With companies like Tesla investing there, they are gaining an understanding of what the Western market values, and, more importantly, how to achieve it. They will be milking whatever expertise Tesla, and other manufacturers, have brought to China for all it's worth, I'm sure. For as long as labour rates in China remain lower than the rest of the world then I think it's inevitable that they will remain in a dominant export position. They also have more money than they know what to do with, thanks to their exports generating high levels of revenue.
 

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My best guess is that China is where Japan was in the mid-1970's right now. Largely copying Western design, perhaps with less than great aesthetics and perhaps not yet meeting standards for things like corrosion resistance and build quality we've got used to. Who can really forget how bloody awful some of the early Datsun's were, for example?

Japan learned very quickly, though, and within a few years were producing cars that were probably the most reliable in the world. I strongly suspect the same may well happen with China. With companies like Tesla investing there, they are gaining an understanding of what the Western market values, and, more importantly, how to achieve it. They will be milking whatever expertise Tesla, and other manufacturers, have brought to China for all it's worth, I'm sure. For as long as labour rates in China remain lower than the rest of the world then I think it's inevitable that they will remain in a dominant export position. They also have more money than they know what to do with, thanks to their exports generating high levels of revenue.
Telsa 100% own their factory, it is not a JV tech leak with the Chinese State all other Legacy automakers had si sign up to. So unless through true "espionage", they wont Milk Tesla for anything. Good job because Tesla are 5-10 years ahead of everyone else.
 

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Telsa 100% own their factory, it is not a JV tech leak with the Chinese State all other Legacy automakers had si sign up to. So unless through true "espionage", they wont Milk Tesla for anything. Good job because Tesla are 5-10 years ahead of everyone else.

That matters not one jot, as it's not about technology transfer, China undoubtedly already has a technological edge over most Western countries, especially given the great deal of experience they have amassed over the past decade or two, as the world's largest manufacturer of electric vehicles (by a big margin). What China needs is manufacturing expertise, and they are getting that for free from every Western country that is outsourcing production to China and training Chinese workers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well NIO appears to be serious about selling into Europe. They are to use the Tesla model of 'experience centres' and have already set up the first outlet in Norway. Very impressive cars with strong sales already established back home. This is Bjorn's report of a visit to that centre.

 

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Tesla are 5-10 years ahead of everyone else.
As much as I respect Tesla and Elon, I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. 5 years is an awful lot, never mind 10. I think Lucid are about to beat the Model S, Rivian is way ahead of Cybertruck as far as availability goes and the Ioniq 5 / EV6 are setting the new standards for charge rates and value for money. Personally, if I had the money, I would not go for a M3 / MY but would opt for the EV6.

Tesla have their Supercharger network as a USP. As for other things, I am not so sure. And I am just now realizing I am contributing to derailing a thread... apologies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did I mention disruption? How about a tried and tested battery swap system coming to Norway. And a luxury car undercutting the competition by £shedloads.

 

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Its very annoying that as an independant country, we can't now gain a "brexit bonus" by reducing our safety standards to allow the droves of these things in.

Did I read this right ?

Allowing lower safety standards, to allow cheaper imports would be a good thing ?
 

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Here it comes!! BYD's Dolphin.

See the Fully Charged Review here:

Sadly I don't know how to steal the video properly.

It's well worth a watch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If that BYD Dolphin makes it to the UK at under £20k it will certainly disrupt a lot of existing dealer sales.
 

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Did I read this right ?

Allowing lower safety standards, to allow cheaper imports would be a good thing ?
I find it xenophobic that the automatic assumption is that Chinese standards are lower and/or less effective. Has anyone taken a look at the EU (and hence UK post-BREXIT) standards for Voiturettes under L6 and L7? So it's OK to let untested 14 YO in France out in the former and both to mix it on the Motorways in the UK with HGVs?
A lot of the "rubbish" produced in China is built to Western order and low specifications. What would happen with cars is open to question.

My best guess is that China is where Japan was in the mid-1970's right now. Largely copying Western design, perhaps with less than great aesthetics and perhaps not yet meeting standards for things like corrosion resistance and build quality we've got used to. Who can really forget how bloody awful some of the early Datsun's were, for example?
British cars, and some European ones in particular, were no better. But the Japanese resolved the issues much quicker. Now the most successful UK car factories are Japanese owned - Nissan, Toyota and until recently Honda.
 

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Did I read this right ?

Allowing lower safety standards, to allow cheaper imports would be a good thing ?
I was being ironic sorry - but we actually don't know how safe the chinese cars would be, even though most assume they'll collapse even seeing another car coming their way. It seems that if you take all of the drivers aids away from modern cars, most would only get 3 stars - so I can't actually see the BYDs of this world being less safe anyway.
 

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I was being ironic sorry - but we actually don't know how safe the chinese cars would be, even though most assume they'll collapse even seeing another car coming their way. It seems that if you take all of the drivers aids away from modern cars, most would only get 3 stars - so I can't actually see the BYDs of this world being less safe anyway.
The Chinese can make stuff to whatever standard any market needs. They have been making those highly desirable cutting edge iPhones for ages and they have made the Honda Jazz we get in the UK since they were first introduced here. All versions of EuroEncap comprehensively covered since that time.

They can build stuff up to a standard as well as they can build stuff down to a standard. They are manufacturers to the world already. Lower labour costs are only part of their advantage.
 
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