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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all

Are folks aware of any national scheme to upgrade town and highway signage with a universal symbol for ev chargers?

I wrote to DFT a few months ago to propose they use the UK post-Coid recovery infrastructure investment to upgrade old fashioned signage.

Would others agree there is need to organise a campaign on this topic?
 

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Why? When the real question is what type of charger is it, do you have the RFID card or App and is it busy or broken.

Anyone who's guided by road signage for this stuff in the age of sat-nav is asking for trouble.

Let's get the government to spend money on something more useful, like more charging points.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks cah197 - really excellent question! Here is my thinking:

Background:

My family purchased a Nissan Leaf last autumn. Like most EV drivers, we found
ourselves constantly being asked about range and how you refuel. You have to keep
getting your phone out to show the Zapmap app to prove to people there really are
that many charging points out there.

I’ve come to believe that the reason for this is simply that our road and motorway
networks are lacking the right signage. Everywhere you drive, we have the legacy
signs for petrol fuel stations but no information promoting charging infrastructure.
This means invisibility of our country’s incredible new and growing charging network
means that non EV drivers still believe that it is hard to charge.

Proposal

Would the DFT consider a project, as part of Government’s green economic
recovery plans, to roll out modern signs with EV fuel symbol across the country?
A second, but connected issue is that today on our roads, there is confusing morass
of signage for EV charging everywhere you look. At a quick count I have recently spotted
15 different symbols being used in the public realm. It's pretty insane - but the only possible
outcome of an organic process.

Department of Transport could use this nationwide infrastructure opportunity to
commission a world class British designer to lead this project. A public process,
perhaps delivered with the Design Council, would result in not only better signage,
but a very visible and emotive change in our environment, a signal, that change has come.
 

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MG EZS 2020
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Yeah, agree with you. Ecotricity have signs on the Service Station billboards, but you would only know what they mean if you are an EV fan. It's a green UK flag. However, not all that have that sign have EV charging and some that don't have the sign, do. Strensham South is a major offender for me with the sign but no chargers.
 
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Yeah, agree with you. Ecotricity have signs on the Service Station billboards, but you would only know what they mean if you are an EV fan. It's a green UK flag. However, not all that have that sign have EV charging and some that don't have the sign, do. Strensham South is a major offender for me with the sign but no chargers.
The services signs should be required to have some sort of EV charging image on them if there are charging facilities. Also, there should be "Services" signs to charging hubs with the same symbol. Apparently the MK Coachway charging hub has no signs pointing to it, which seems crazy! Council car parks with chargers could have an EV charging image on their signage too.

I don't see a downside to this, more visibility shows non-EV drivers that chargers are abundant and help EV drivers find chargers in locations they are unfamiliar with. We already have the sign symbols for petrol, food, toilets, etc so why not add EV charging to these? (and phase out the petrol ones eventually)
 

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Renault Zoe ZE50 GT-Line Rapid Charge
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Let's get the government to spend money on something more useful, like more charging points.
The Welsh Government has included "EV charging infrastructure" in their new "Clean Air Plan", published yesterday.

Page 57
• Policy on Ultra-Low Emission Vehicles (ULEVs) which requires new non-residential developments to have charging points in at least 10% of the spaces available. This is the first national policy of its kind in the UK.
Page 65
We are working with UK Government, Local Authorities, the energy sector and business to plan for and implement the roll out of electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure. By investing £2M by 2020 we will help create a network of rapid charging points to enable longer distance travel by electric vehicles throughout Wales. We will consult on an Electric Vehicle Charging Strategy to inform wider investment in Autumn 2020.
Full document

https://gov.wales/sites/default/fil...-plan-for-wales-healthy-air-healthy-wales.pdf
 

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It doesn't really matter what the standard signage is... MOTO service stations will always do something confusing and different like they do with all their other signs!

Personally I don't need general "there is a charger in this area" signs, I need specific signs. I know that generally there are various charging options at Westfield London, but I had to do loads of research to make sure I was going in the correct entrance and picking the right level/area. I don't want to play hunt the charger, especially when it costs money to go in and out of a car park.
 

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2020 BMW i3S 120Ah BEV
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One, I agree that signage needs to be in place just like it is for "fuel recharging points" [sic]. Two, the market needs to stop messing around with different charge standards and perhaps it will be up to the governments to make legislation that all EVs support one charge standard (be it CCS, be it Type 2, be it ChaDeMo I genuinely don't give a ... ). Lo and behold in ten years time all these questions will go away (other than for those of us messing about with "early adopter" cars!!).
 

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One, I agree that signage needs to be in place just like it is for "fuel recharging points" [sic]. Two, the market needs to stop messing around with different charge standards and perhaps it will be up to the governments to make legislation that all EVs support one charge standard (be it CCS, be it Type 2, be it ChaDeMo I genuinely don't give a ... ). Lo and behold in ten years time all these questions will go away (other than for those of us messing about with "early adopter" cars!!).
The EU have already done this for charging standards.

It’s CCS for DC and Type 2 for AC.

Now tell me more about those standardised petrol station signs.
 

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Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
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The Welsh Government has included "EV charging infrastructure" in their new "Clean Air Plan", published yesterday.
The document says: "By investing £2M by 2020 we will help create a network of rapid charging points to enable longer distance travel by electric vehicles throughout Wales. We will consult on an Electric Vehicle Charging Strategy to inform wider investment in Autumn 2020."

The £2M referred to was announced in 2018, as discussed in EV rapid chargers in Wales, which I think you commented on.

I can't see any new funding in the new announcement, just the consultation on wider investment this Autumn.

Have you come across anything that says where the £2M has been spent to date? It seems to be lots of talking and documentation, with little action.

Edit: It looks as though they held another bid meeting in January this year: tender meeting
 

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Have you come across anything that says where the £2M is been spent to date? It seems to be lots of talking and documentation, with little action.

Edit: It looks as though they held another bid meeting in January this year: tender meeting
I haven't, but I think requiring a min 10% charging spaces in "non-residential" developments (business & retail parks) is also important.
 

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The EU have already done this for charging standards.

It’s CCS for DC and Type 2 for AC.

Now tell me more about those standardised petrol station signs.
But that's two charging standards not one...

I wouldn't say they're standardised petrol station signs, but at least they exist ..
 

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It doesn't really matter what the standard signage is... MOTO service stations will always do something confusing and different like they do with all their other signs!

Personally I don't need general "there is a charger in this area" signs, I need specific signs. I know that generally there are various charging options at Westfield London, but I had to do loads of research to make sure I was going in the correct entrance and picking the right level/area. I don't want to play hunt the charger, especially when it costs money to go in and out of a car park.
This. Who hasn't wasted time driving around a carpark looking for a charger that they know is there somewhere...
 

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But that's two charging standards not one...

I wouldn't say they're standardised petrol station signs, but at least they exist ..
Not really, unless you’re saying that every home and destination charger should be DC.

Remember that Type 2 is actually part of the CCS standard.
 

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This. Who hasn't wasted time driving around a carpark looking for a charger that they know is there somewhere...
Not exactly, but as part of my research into a future EV and as I was there anyway I wandered around on foot to try and find a supermarket charger that I knew was there somewhere. Couldn't see them anywhere so I looked across to see an employee and went across to ask him where they were. Doh. Naturally right behind me, but completely unsignposted..
 

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I don't believe signage in this day and age would really change that much attitude as attention would still not be paid to them. It would be a scheme like proposed in Germany where every fuel station has to provide EV charging infrastructure that would finally educate the masses.

Agree that signage to direct people to EV charge points, as many places do with fuel stations would be most helpful!
 

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You don't have eyes in the back of your head? :eek:
I used to when I was teaching..;)

In my defence as I couldn't see the points in the dim lighting my focus changed to the distance where the employee was.. Still, I've added another possibility to my local list, and won't have to faff about if I ever want to use it in future.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It doesn't really matter what the standard signage is... MOTO service stations will always do something confusing and different like they do with all their other signs!

Personally I don't need general "there is a charger in this area" signs, I need specific signs. I know that generally there are various charging options at Westfield London, but I had to do loads of research to make sure I was going in the correct entrance and picking the right level/area. I don't want to play hunt the charger, especially when it costs money to go in and out of a car park.
Hi Dunos - I totally agree with you - us EV drivers will always need more live data on availability and compatiability until the roll out and standardisation is so universal that we can just drive around like petrol drivers do without a second thought about 'will this station work for me'

My proposal is more about conscious raising for NON EV drivers, ironically, in order to fuel widespread takeup.

It may work due to what is known as the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon - where something you recently learned suddenly appears 'everywhere'. Also called Frequency Bias (or Illusion), the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon is the seeming appearance of a newly-learned (or paid attention to) concept in unexpected places. are thinking of something suddenly you start notcing it everywhere
 

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One concern I have for signage is its ZERO use on 1 stall chargers - it's just bait you into going to a "used" charger. Agree there should be a standard for a 4 stall minimum EV charger though signage wise. I would be SO annoyed following signs to a 1 stall "free vend" unit taken by taxi's queuing as they don't want to pay.

I'd also for reference personally prefer many Rapid chargers to actually charge for electric due to ^ but thats an entire other thread.
 
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