Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good news, my phev gh4 arrives next week!

I have been reading the forums about using the paddles and different D modes, frankly a bit confused.

Could some explain ( in very plain English) the benefits of using the regen breaking please. I may be missing the point, but isn't it true that if you drive around with the brakes on, this will use more energy? I understand that you can create charge doing this, but doesn't having the breaks on counteract that? Also does it make the vehicle slower/ less responsive?

What level of breaks regen do you recommend?

and any other top tips on the difference between using the gear stick or the paddles would be appreciated. And keep it simple for me please! Thank you
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
You use the regen braking instead of the normal brakes. Instead of the motor turning the driven wheels, it works the other way round so that the wheels drive the motor which generates electricity that goes into the battery.

It makes sense, when you need to slow the car down, to convert your momentum into volts which you can then use to propel the car. It makes a big difference to electric range and even on longer journeys, the regen will top up your traction battery which will then chip in when appropriate.

The levels of regen give different levels of retardation. It's up to you to choose your rate of deceleration. It soon becomes fairly intuitive if you play around with the controls.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,249 Posts
Regenerative braking does not use the brakes. In fact, that is the point... it uses the motor to slow you down instead of the brakes and it regenerates power back to the battery in the process. This is good :)

The paddles control the amount of regenerative braking you get when you lift off the accelerator pedal. When you do that it won't use the brakes until you actually press the brake pedal.

So you are ever driving around with the brakes on unless you press the brake pedal and even then only if the regeneration doesn't slow you down enough.

So you can use the paddles to control the amount of braking effect you get when lifting off the accelerator pedal and that can help particularly when going down a hill or slowing down from motorway speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Congrats Renside. IMO there's not actually that much difference between using the brakes and the paddles (in terms of mpg, that is)!

Regen using the paddles goes from B0 - equivalent to 'coasting' i.e. no engine braking at all, to B5 - maximum regen. Very roughly speaking, B1 is equivalent to 'normal' engine braking - i.e. when you lift off the accelerator you will tend to slow down gently. Similarly B3 is (roughly) like changing down a gear, and B5 like changing down two gears (until you approach standstill when the effect diminishes).

For advanced users (!), if you use B5 a lot, you will be able to control the accelerator carefully so that (in B5) you can press the accelerator very slightly so that you drive it approximately in the 'B0' position - i.e. so that you are coasting - neither using power nor regenning! Pressing the accelerator then speeds up and releasing it slows down!

Alternatively, you can just leave the car in 'D' - equivalent to having the paddles at 'B2', and just use the brakes as you would in any normal car. Simples!

Fwiw I use the paddles a lot - B0 on the open road and then using the paddles a lot around town to slow down. But I think this is more for my amusement than actual mpg gains...:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you, so just to clarify, if I use one of the b settings, it is only in force if my foot is not on the accelerator?

Also I read that using the brake pedal also generates electric power? True?

And what is the difference between setting the b regen brakes and the different settings on the gear stick?

Thank you for your help, it's a complicated business?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
The way to think of it is, the power is either going from the battery to the wheels, or vice versa, unless you are in B0 when there is no power going one way or the other.

Yes if you brake then the power is going back into the battery - there is a dial which will show you this. I prefer to 'brake' using B1-5 as necessary, but if you prefer to leave it in 'D' (=B2), then you will do some moderate regenning every time you lift off the accelerator, and more when you press the brake pedal (but eventually you will use the brake pads :().

Actually it seems complicated until you drive it. I prefer 'B0-5', my OH prefers 'D'. We are both happy :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,249 Posts
Thank you, so just to clarify, if I use one of the b settings, it is only in force if my foot is not on the accelerator?
Kind of...

If you imagine a sliding scale of maximum braking at one end and maximum accelerating at the other... the same scale is available regardless of whether you are in D or a B mode... what changes if where on the scale the feet off all pedals is.

In B0 the feet off position on the scale is at the point that is neither braking nor accelerating (i.e. coasting). Pressing the brake pedal a little will move you more into the braking zone but you may still be regen braking. Press the brake pedal more and you will at some point be using the max regen available and then pressing the pedal even more you will then start to use the mechanical brakes.

At B1 the feet off position is slightly into the braking area but regen only. If you need to brake more you will press the brake pedal and use a bit of regen, more and like before you will eventually be braking so hard you will then be using the mechanical brakes.

B2 is more into the braking zone when feet off but the same applies when you press the brake pedal.... up to B5

B5 gives you the maximum regen braking with feet off so if you want more braking you press the brake pedal and you will then be using the mechanical brakes.

The point that will help you understand it all is that the B modes do not give you more or less regen braking in total... it changes the point on that sliding scale where your feet off position is.

Also I read that using the brake pedal also generates electric power? True?
Yes... described above. However, if you are in B5 then no... you will already be getting the maximum regen braking feet off so pressing the brake pedal will always use the mechanical brakes.

And what is the difference between setting the b regen brakes and the different settings on the gear stick?
The B modes does really change anything except the feet off regen. The gear lever position will change the amount of acceleration you get when you press the go pedal, a/c and heating settings etc to help extend your range.

Until you get used to the car and how the modes work you may not see a lot of difference in range between using the different modes but once you understand how they work and get proficient at using them it could make a difference but it will never be a huge difference. I've no real idea by how much but my experience with other EVs would suggest no more than 10% extended range... just a guess though :)

Thank you for your help, it's a complicated business?
It does look complicated at first but it is amazing how quickly you get to just do it and not worry about the technicalities :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
B5 gives you the maximum regen braking with feet off so if you want more braking you press the brake pedal and you will then be using the mechanical brakes.
In the Outlander I believe that in B5 you can press the brakes and it will still regen some more before using the mechanical brakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,249 Posts
In the Outlander I believe that in B5 you can press the brakes and it will still regen some more before using the mechanical brakes.
My bad! :oops:

My explanation still stands though... just got that small detail wrong. Sorry. I have only test driven and don't own one so going from memory on that. Thanks :)

In which case, when in B5, pressing the brake pedal a little bit may give you a bit more regen before the mechanical brakes come in :)

When I tested it I had it for half a day and tried it out over some very hilly roads in Cornwall and I found the paddles to be a great way to control speed when feet off going down hills. It was great fun and effectively meant I only used the mechanical brakes when I actually needed them. I loved it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
...
I found the paddles to be a great way to control speed when feet off going down hills. It was great fun and effectively meant I only used the mechanical brakes when I actually needed them. I loved it!
If I could just second and add to this. On my short test drive in busy urban conditions I never really had the chance to try these paddles out and wasn't really until I had the Outlander for a few days that I learned their true value. This was on a dark lonely twisting hilly road (A68) on Scottish Border where I found it a lot quicker and easier to hit the paddle to control the speed, especially where you had dipped headlights for the odd oncoming vehicle. I have also found it useful to adjust speed to the stop go traffic flow of roads like the M25, but you have to be careful to touch the break to bring on the lights although this seems the intuitive response already. Your foot reacts automatically on the foot brake but you just tend not to follow through a bit like sensitive braking in the snow. I think these paddles will probably allow safer braking in the wet and snow but I do wonder about wear and tear through frequency of use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
As Paul correctly states, the brake peddle will operate regen before actual braking. Once you get used to the car you can feel the switch from regen to mechanical brakes as you brake more. Remember that with the paddles the brake lights won't be on, so I'd suggest it's wise to be mindful of what's behind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
I must admit I've hardly touched the paddles in three months. Is there any data that quantifies how many extra miles range or x% of battery life you get by heavy use of the paddles in B5 for example? Trying to figure out if there is a practical benefit of getting into the routine of using them or if its just a boys toy.
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF N-Connecta 40kWh; Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Joined
·
330 Posts
I use them as a means of slowing down a little more quickly than the usual coasting if I have misjudged the range to a junction, bend, etc. rather than a gentle brake application - it might give the batteries a very minor boost but anything that contributes to minimising the brake dust on those lovely but fiddly alloys is a plus too.
 

·
http://ts.la/david3488
Joined
·
642 Posts
Mine will live in B5, its not aggressive enough imho
 

·
SU-EV convert
Jaguar iPace 2020
Joined
·
338 Posts
I must admit I've hardly touched the paddles in three months. Is there any data that quantifies how many extra miles range or x% of battery life you get by heavy use of the paddles in B5 for example? Trying to figure out if there is a practical benefit of getting into the routine of using them or if its just a boys toy.
I my view it can't hurt. I use B5 in town and B1/2 on highways. If regen breaking can help a Prius, it can help an Outlander
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top