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Discussion Starter #1
Why not?

Was parked next to one yesterday, it seems to be basically a LEAF in a fat suit (or Iron Man Hulk Buster suit for anyone else who's comic book geeky/has a comic book geeky kid).

Could do well? Or am I crazy.
 

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They are not based on the same platform as the Leaf was designed from scratch so it wouldn't be as easy as you suggest... but I do agree, we need more existing models in EV and PHEV format, especially more crossovers.

I wouldn't buy a EV Juke as it is too small for us but I would consider an PHEV Qashqai. I have had to buy a diesel Qashqai so an PHEV version might have fitted the bill.
 

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I would expect a company committed to electric propulsion would be starting to roll-out PHEV to all models. With time electric-range in a PHEV should increase, and size of engine can reduce. Also BEV versions can be added when practical. Sad that Nissan don't seem to be doing this. Quite a few other manufacturers seem to be thinking this way and Nissan are starting to look backward.
 

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Personally I think Nissan are (currently) being a bit more ballsy in offering on BEV versions, but PHEVs seem to be a much smoother transition and more of a "swiss knife" vehicle than BEVs can currently be.

They are not based on the same platform as the Leaf was designed from scratch so it wouldn't be as easy as you suggest... but I do agree, we need more existing models in EV and PHEV format, especially more crossovers.

I wouldn't buy a EV Juke as it is too small for us but I would consider an PHEV Qashqai. I have had to buy a diesel Qashqai so an PHEV version might have fitted the bill.
Well, apparently there was rumours (a rumour) early on that the LEAF, while unique, was a variation on the B0 platform (which is also shared with the NV200) and seeing them side-by-side last night in CostCo they look remarkably similar in stature.
 

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I would find the constant plugging in and out for small battery size PHEVs too much hassle. The I3 Rex solves this (if it was cheaper and had 5 seats and more space) but BEV + 2nd Ice is the optimal combination for me at the moment - at least until lower cost 200 mile range BEVs are available.
 

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I would find the constant plugging in and out for small battery size PHEVs too much hassle
Me too but they are really more for a driving pattern that is more geared to daily or regular short trips (inside the EV range) but able to do longer trips easily. This is a common usage pattern for a lot of people.
 

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I wouldn't buy a EV Juke as it is too small for us but I would consider an PHEV Qashqai. I have had to buy a diesel Qashqai so an PHEV version might have fitted the bill.

Bigger cars need bigger batteries. The Mercedes B Class Electric has a 36kWh traction battery but has about the same range as a LEAF.

Juke is about 30cm longer then LEAF but smaller then a Mercedes B. Juke could work as a pure EV if Nissan has somewhere to put ~30kWh of batteries and Nissan is able to sell enough. But a pure EV Juke would take away sales from LEAF. I doubt Nissan would built it.


Qashquai probably wouldn't work as a battery-only EV. Even if Nissan could find somewhere to put the batteries, the cost of a large pack would make the car hard to sell. PHEV could work but I'm not sure if Nissan has anything planned.


But are either of these cars built on Platforms designed for BEV or PHEV? Golf, UP, B Class and Clio are all on platforms designed for battery versions from the start.
 

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Wouldn't it better going forward to have range extender engines instead of PHEV's? Less complication, less mechanics, Smoother running etc.
 

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Wouldn't it better going forward to have range extender engines instead of PHEV's? Less complication, less mechanics, Smoother running etc.
Not from an economy point of view. The cars would use more petrol making electricity to run the cars than just using it to push the car along in the first place. The beauty of a phev is it decides what is the best way to use the fuel to maximise economy.
 

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But would that be offset by the increased range? If I had a Rex in my leaf I would be able to go anywhere not to mention the range anxiety melting away. I'm sure It would just be used as a backup, a just in case engine.

Trains work this way I'm led to believe although they don't store energy
 

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Trains work this way I'm led to believe although they don't store energy
As a curious sort of person, I investigated how the trains I've travelled on work.

Class 43 HST Locomotive 2,250HP diesel connected to an alternator. DC traction motors. No power storage. The electric drive takes the place of the transmission.

Class 158 DMU -- each car has a 350HP diesel connected to a Voith hydrolic two-speed automatic transmission. A few have been modernised to a mechanical transmission made by ZF.

Class 175 DMU -- each car has a 400HP diesel connected to a Voith T211 hydraulic two-speed automatic transmission.

Class 390 EMU Pendolino. 5.1 or 5.9MW (or almost 8,000HP) Electric. No storage, but they do have regenerative braking. There are resistors too -- possibly the amount of regen is limited or the electric brakes need somewhere to dump the energy if the pantograph looses connection.


The Voith transmissions are simple -- Low speed is connected through torque converter. High speed is connected through a fluid coupling. The transmission changes speeds by redirecting hydraulic fluid from one coupling to the other. -- No bands, planetary gears . . . .

The fluid couplings slip. -- Newer units have a simple lock up mechanism. I doubt the 158's have it.



oh and this:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Class_390_Pendolino

or this if you prefer facts:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... 2010/vt-ec4t-390 technical file issue 1b.pdf
 

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PHEV and REx technology have their place in the transition to electric drive trains, but I don't think that they will be necessary for a long time. In a few years, we'll have affordable 200 mile BEV range, which really covers most driving needs.

200 miles is enough for almost anyone, and that's not even taking quick charging into account. This allows you to make 320-350 range trips with just a short coffee break...

If you need more than 200 miles, PHEV or REx aren't ideal either, because they are so inefficient. In fact, with a car like the Outlander or Volt, once you switch to petrol the fuel efficiency is appalling.

So, I really don't see the point of a PHEV Qashqai in the long term. Better to make a BEV version with sufficient range and power (ie. to pull a boat trailer or something). The compliance Rav4 by Toyota already comes a long way using Tesla technology.
 

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If you need more than 200 miles, PHEV or REx aren't ideal either, because they are so inefficient. In fact, with a car like the Outlander or Volt, once you switch to petrol the fuel efficiency is appalling.
????? This weekend my wife has just used the Volt to drive our daughted to Coventry and Leeds on Uni visits
Coventry about 150miles return using (just) less than 2 gallons
Leeds about 320 miles under 6 gallons.

The only car we have owned that has beaten these figures was our 1.4d Cloe, cheap to run but you would need a new spine after a trip to Leeds. The Volt is the most comftable car we have ever owned, and that includes our previous E class Merc and X5 BMW.

Life time MPG took a knock we are now only at 155 mpg.

A PHEV is the ideal vehicle if like us you make a lot of trips around 40 miles but still need a car that will go wherever you want whenever you want.
My inlaws live about 250 miles away and we are waiting on the dreaded get down here quick call. Just imagine the stress that call in tails and then add on the problems of completing the race down there in a car like the LEAF.
Sometimes compromises have to be made so you can just get on with your life
 

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Qashquai EV on the way one the 150 mile battery is out there in 2016
 
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????? This weekend my wife has just used the Volt to drive our daughted to Coventry and Leeds on Uni visits
Coventry about 150miles return using (just) less than 2 gallons
Leeds about 320 miles under 6 gallons.
I have a friend with an Outlander who says he gets an efficiency of around 15 liters per 100 km. There were reports by lease companies in the Netherlands about the Ampera that claimed an average of 10 liters per 100 km (the lease companies can track fuel consumption through their fuel cards data and match this with mileage which is recorded at the dealer).

Of course, ymmv...

In your example trips, assuming two charges per trip and full use of about 40 electric miles per charge, you get about 6.5 to 7 litters per 100 km. Nothing special for a petrol car, but to be honest also not 'appalling'
 

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I have a friend with an Outlander who says he gets an efficiency of around 15 liters per 100 km. There were reports by lease companies in the Netherlands about the Ampera that claimed an average of 10 liters per 100 km (the lease companies can track fuel consumption through their fuel cards data and match this with mileage which is recorded at the dealer).

Of course, ymmv...

In your example trips, assuming two charges per trip and full use of about 40 electric miles per charge, you get about 6.5 to 7 litters per 100 km. Nothing special for a petrol car, but to be honest also not 'appalling'
Nope leave home with full charge and the rest on petrol, thats the point of a PHEV, if I wanted to stop and charge I would have bought a different car.
The Volt gets an easy 50mpg if you drive with care.
 

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Hi Andy, that's a very decent fuel economy for a petrol car. I think the operative term is 'driving carefully'. I see some people driving their Ampera at very high highway speeds and can't imagine they get anywhere near your mileage.
 
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