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Discussion Starter #1
I'm toying with the idea of buying a high mileage (!) MS, which are becoming available at prices that would still mean me mortgaging the house, and P/Exing my beautiful Volvo V60 PHEV, but that are sort of a bargain for what in reality is a super-car - however, being of an age where luxury and ease of driving/owning is more important than raw speed, and not being anywhere near a dealer (other than J.Cleve appointment only) where I could just accidentally have a look at one with my boss (SWMBO) I have no idea of just how luxurious or not the actual physical car is, rather than it's driving capabilities. So that's the question - if say the MS didn't have a big touch screen, and the Supercharging network, would people still rave about them, or would the reliability/build quality etc etc start to seriously impact on the value for money aspect ?
 

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I'm struggling to work out what you're asking here Jeffrey, are you worried that the driving experience isn't any good? Or is it a question around how luxurious the S is?

Might be easier if you list your priorities in order, for example

Maintenance Cost
Running costs (X miles per month)
Luxury feel
Cost

Just an idea :)

What I would say, is you need to test drive one!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My issue is about the luxury of a £35k car that's say 4 years old, and with 90k miles on it - I know the driving will be amazing, but actually we don't do a lot of miles anyway (!) so EV savings are less than zero - my current PHEV acts like an EV 80% of the time so I'm not killing the planet, and is a lovely car to look at and just sit in, and can do the long holiday trips in comfort and reasonable economy; so if I bought a MS, am I going up in the world, or actually going down, and I might regret it given my circumstances !!
 

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I think the only sensible thing to do is to go to somewhere with several of them and sit in a few.

Seat quality and ride quality is what can be lacking and can easily ruin a car completely. You can only know from driving one.
 

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I have also pondered a Model S 2nd hand and I've had a few hundred miles as a passenger (a Reading based airport Xfer company use them).

The ride/noise on those cars wouldn't be acceptable to me.

Comments below obviously all in my opinion, YMMV.

The ride was iffy and at cruising speed they weren't quiet. There is a good chance those cars had high miles, and those miles probably included a full load of passengers and luggage. I didn't inspect them closely, but they could also have been on big wheels, but I didn't think so.

On that experience I would have to try a car with standard wheels and modest miles to see if the ride is OK on a new'ish version. If no, then drop the idea of a Model S. If the answer is yes, then I'd want to try the actual car I was thinking of buying to check it was also OK, as I'd assume at some point the suspension goes and the ride deteriorates. In the alternative it may be that big wheels are to blame.

As a guide I am comparing the ride and noise levels to a 15 reg 7 series SE and a 68 reg e-Golf, both of which are on comfort orientated wheels, and both of which are quieter and have a more refined ride at motorway speeds than the taxi Model S.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think the only sensible thing to do is to go to somewhere with several of them and sit in a few.

Seat quality and ride quality is what can be lacking and can easily ruin a car completely. You can only know from driving one.
I know you're trying to help, but if it was that easy for me, I wouldn't be asking the question - The east coast in Lincolnshire isn't a hot bed of Tesla dealers, and JD Cleve, as I indicated in my post, is appointment only, and I wanted to get past the point where I knew wether I was even interested, and know that we should in theory be seriously impressed on just getting into the car, before asking SWMBO to consider mortgaging the house for one !!

also, thanks @kcrane, it's that sort of info that I'm hoping to get from people on here - even if it is going the wrong way for my dream !!
 

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Then it's a matter of waiting until a Tesla does appear at a dealer that isn't a bazillion miles away and isn't appointment only.

I'm waiting for that too. I quite fancy an older Model S but having known someone else say the ride quality was atrocious and it was the worst riding car they'd even been in (and they've been in mine that's lowered and not great in that department) then it does concern me that there isn't the level of luxury I'd want in something that expensive either. Making do with a poor ride in a £10k car is one thing but when you're spending £30-£40k then I'd want it perfect frankly.
 

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I had a Model S for a week thanks to Polar EV Experience. The car was nearly 5 years old and had about 135,000 miles on the clock, apparently it only lost about 20 miles of range. You could tell it's age (it probably didn't help that it was basically a rental driven by a different person every week - seats worn out, lots of stone chips, every wheel kerbed) but it was still very, very quick (it was a 85 model rear wheel drive) and almost everything worked, including air suspension. Things that didn't work: there was some kind of warning light on the dash which I was told to ignore (it would drive me nuts if that was my car), halfway through the week one of the door handles refused to pop out (it would still open from inside) and the instrument cluster froze on 3-4 occassions when I was driving, leaving me only with Waze app as a speedometer. I had to call Tesla and they told me to hold both wheels on the steering wheel for a couple of seconds and it resets the cluster. The question is whether you would want to run such a car outside warranty (you might still get the remainder of unlimited mileage drivetrain warranty), you are unlikely to be able to fix it anywhere but a Tesla dealership (or book a Ranger). I did feel pretty special to drive though. I also had a test drive last weekend in Model 3 SR+ in Bluewater and it didn't feel as quick (although I am sure it was) but it was very wet and raining and I didn't really want to push too hard. Model 3 also felt pretty special, the screen and panoramic roof are great features and it has every luxury gizmo you can think of. Ride was fine even though it doesn't have air suspension like the Model S I drove had. Being a brand new car, it comes with warranty and is still likely to be worth money in 3-4 years' time, even with 60-80k miles on the clock. My main concern would be running a high mileage Model S outside warranty which is the reason I will likely to go ahead with Model 3 SR+. Not only the cost of repairs would be a concern, but the headache of booking the car in for repairs and so on, I don't have time for that, I just need a car that I can jump in and go and not worry about it breaking down all of a sudden. For £38,500 you can do a lot worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's beginning to occur to me that if you were to take away the performance and the driving experience, the MS isn't that great a car to live with on the basis of everything else - I guess I will just have to wait to see if one pops up relatively locally, or perhaps wait until the M3 becomes available S/H - but at the increased original price, and the way S/H EV's are holding on to their retail pricing, that maybe another 10 years or so !!
 

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I've had an MS for 4 years, before that I had a BMW 6 series grand coupe, BMW X5, Aston Martin Vantage, Audi S4, Mercedes SLK (well that was the wifes but I drove it a fair bit). to gie some idea of reference

Leaving aside the performance, the most striking thing for most people is the delivery of power. No gear changes, no engine vibration sitting at traffic lights, it just does what you ask it to do. That side of things is better than any otehr car I've had.

The interior is a bit minamilist, at 35k you'll be in late prefacelift cars, maybe get lucky with a facelift, but either way you should be looking at the next generation seats which are recardo. I have those and we drove to Italy and back and felt absolutely fine. It can eat miles incredibly, and while I have autopilot I only use it on roads with really light traffic as it doesn't drive like I do in terms of positioning on the roads etc, bur even then journeys are easy. I wouldn't call it luxurious in the sense of damped door closing, 18 way adjustable seats, really high quality leather, softly damped covers, but it is comfortable.

The noise thing is interesting, I think the lack of other noises mean tyre/road and wind noise are notied more but I wouldn't say it was any worse than any other car, my current facelift is better than my prefacelift so maybe they've just improved things over time. The Model 3 is much worse and there are even after market kits to improve those cars.

What I would say if there's a lack of depth to some of the design. Don't know how to explain it, prefacelifft headlights are poor for technical reasons (they're xenon but because they didn't fit a washer to the headlights UK/EU legislation means they had to fit weaker lights to avoid dazel, the door handles are over engineered bit the closing mechanism is thump, the steering column moves for comfort access but makes a noise. But that all said, I've still driving one after 4 years and this is my 2nd one.
 

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I think @Jon G's reply above summarises it very nicely. They are brilliant cars to drive but I wouldn't want to slam the doors in case something fell off. An exaggeration but you get the point. The rubber door seals around the top of the rear windows are slightly "baggy" but they are the same on both sides so it's symmetrical :rolleyes:. I came from 3 x Lexus and was petrified about the build quality. It's ok and to me the lack of buttons, knobs and dials is so refreshing.

After 6 months my drivers seat (Next Gen) looked like a 2.5 year seat. After 2.5 years, it looks the same :)

When I wash the car I need to open the doors to dry the door sills. I don't on my wife's Q3.

With the app I can prewarm the seats, but when I get in the car the setting sometimes reverts back to whatever they were at before. Updates are great, until you notice a bug that means something doesn't do what it did before.

I strongly dislike how Tesla corporate operates and the kids on the ground are told nothing - owners know more than they do half the time.

Would I buy another one - absolutely, but I wish there was something else out there that had the "je ne sais quoi" that a Tesla has.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think you've nicely made my decision for me there thanks - If I'm right, in summary, if you drive a lot, and enjoy the whole power thing, it's the driving experience that will make the cost issue dissapear, but in my case, I suspect that every time I get in it to drive to Lidl, just 8 miles away, the "minimalist" thing might make me regret mortgaging the house for it. I've got a feeling that just because it's an EV, I think I should be owning one, whereas I wouldn't even think about owning a Ferrari or something similiar - cheers for the replies people, Tesla is on hold for me for quite a while if not ever !!
 

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I think @Jon G's reply above summarises it very nicely. They are brilliant cars to drive but I wouldn't want to slam the doors in case something fell off.
Funny you should say that, the door card popped of my door every other time I closed it, a ranger fixed it in the end.

Jeffery, I can understand your decision, its a personal choice and everyone is different in what they value. You either fall for its charms or you don't - for 35k I'm not sure what I'd get instead, maybe a porsche panamera if you can take the looks of the first version or even a 7 series BMW, or just buy something a cheaper..
 

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The Model S is comfortable, but early examples are noisy and prone to random rattles, squeaks and taps -- Tesla got a lot better at NVH in later models.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think I'm suffering from "decent EV envy syndrome" - I really don't want a low range EV - the only ones available S/H for my sort of money, and basically, everything else is north of £30k, so I was assuming a £70k Tesla would at least feel like something really special - but I guess not !
 

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Don't get me wrong, if you buy a Model S I don't think you'll think it's a bad car, but if you're coming from something like a 5-series it might seem like a step down.
Just my two pence.
 

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For what it's worth, I went from a BMW 5 series to a Nissan Leaf. The step down in quality was there but nothing that was annoying or worthy of banging on about. I don't know how the early Model S compares to a 2013 Nissan Leaf (which is what I had at the time, I now have a 2016 Leaf).
 

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I don’t think a Model S is worth remortgaging for (or any car for that matter!). You will end up resenting the car and if something expensive goes wrong be really pi$$ed off and further into debt. An out of warranty EV can be very expensive!
 
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