Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am interested in buying a Kona EV and I have noticed that they come with either a 7kW charger or a 10.5 kW charger. I have asked several Hyundai sales people what it means and none of them seem to know, even though they are selling the blooming thing. One of them actually said to me: Well there isn't any need for us to know these things yet because we haven't got any Konas to sell and we won't be having any for another 6 to 7 months. As an afterthought he added: "I can place an order for you if you want to buy one."
I mean, the mind boggles!
Can anyone explain to me, in fairly simple terms, why I would need a 10.5 kW charger as opposed to a 7 kW? I feel I may have missed something that's so blindingly obvious. One salesperson did actually say it depends if you have 3-phase electric supply. I asked what he meant by that and he replied "I'm not too clear on that."

I know one thing and that is the Premium SE costs almost as much as a Tesla Model 3 at just over £40,000 which means it is regarded by the government as a luxury vehicle and doesn't qualify for "0 road tax".
I would very much appreciate anyone who can help me.
 

·
Registered
Kona 64
Joined
·
577 Posts
Up till now the Kona came with a 7.2kw AC charging port for a type2 cable and CCS connector for charging at up to 77kw DC if you can find a 150kw rapid charger, otherwise at 50kw.

In the UK for most domestic properties the electricity supply positive is taken from one of the live supply cables and gives 230 volts. By tapping into the other cables you can get 415 volts. Since this only really benefits industrial equipment, particularly powerful motors it is of more benefit for industry and also commercial kitchens. If you , like the rest of us have a standard 230/240 volt supply there is no point going to the expense of upgrading, nothing else in your house will work on 3 phase. So even with an 11kw Kona you will still only home charge at the same speed as those of us with the original version and which is quite satisfactory for home charging.

It might future proof you, but at present for home charging you will not see any benefit. If you are on the continent 3phase is more common and ‘might’ benefit you. Early mk2’s are being supplied at a discount with 7.2kw AC charging. If you need a substantial charge you will use a rapid DC charger which will give you a decent charge in 30 to 45 minutes.

The price creep to over £40k is disappointing, my top spec in 2018 came out a about £33,000. Do bear in mind that the Tesla is a brilliantly engineered car, overpriced owing to import duty but the build quality being American is shocking.

My dealer has only supplied 2 Kona EV’s and mine is the only one they have done a 20k service on. It is a fact that they often know a lot less than we do
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
451 Posts
Ok I'll have a go.
The 10 1/2 kw charger would allow you to get a full charge from flat in about 7 hours, whereas the 7kw one would take about 10... But to take advantage of the 10 1/2 kw charger you would need to have access to a 3 phase supply and a 3phase ever, you probably don't at home (it's rare in residential property in the UK, if you had one you would almost certainly know about it), you may have access at work you would need to ask what would be available to use.
Now onto some guesses that hopefully someone else can confirm, probably if you have the 10 1/2 kw charger you can still charge at 7kw on a regular 32amp single phase ever.
In reality I'm not sure I see a lot of benefit in the bigger charger, any DC rapid charger that you find on your travels will replenish your battery far faster than either of the AC charger options, and the number of times you arrive anywhere absolutely flat and need to get a full battery in 7 hours rather than 10 would probably be vanishingly small, someone else may have a different opinion.
 

·
Registered
Kona Electric, EU base with heat pump
Joined
·
425 Posts
The 3-phase charger option, 10.5 kW apparently, is aimed at European countries that use domestic 3-phase power, unlike the single-phase power used most everywhere else including the UK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
If you go for the 7KW option, you will only ever charge at 7KW and you might save £300 if there are any of those cars left. I'm not going to go into DC charging...
If you go for the 10.5KW option, then you will still get 7KW at home and on the rare occasion 10.5 KW away from home, e.g at the office, supermarkets, motorways. As previous posters have mentioned, more than 10.5KW is rare but increasing, My half glass full approach tells me be one day all AC public charging posts will deliver more than 10.5KW.

The price creep to over £40k is disappointing, my top spec in 2018 came out a about £33,000. Do bear in mind that the Tesla is a brilliantly engineered car, overpriced owing to import duty but the build quality being American is shocking.
The premium SE price now attracts the Luxury tax for 5 years, that's just the last straw for me. I went for the non-SE.
In the end the Kona is just a Hyundai with a big battery. Take away the battery and what remains is just a cheap and cheerful car.
 

·
Registered
Kona 64
Joined
·
577 Posts
Ok I'll have a go.
The 10 1/2 kw charger would allow you to get a full charge from flat in about 7 hours, whereas the 7kw one would take about 10... But to take advantage of the 10 1/2 kw charger you would need to have access to a 3 phase supply and a 3phase ever, you probably don't at home (it's rare in residential property in the UK, if you had one you would almost certainly know about it), you may have access at work you would need to ask what would be available to use.
Now onto some guesses that hopefully someone else can confirm, probably if you have the 10 1/2 kw charger you can still charge at 7kw on a regular 32amp single phase ever.
In reality I'm not sure I see a lot of benefit in the bigger charger, any DC rapid charger that you find on your travels will replenish your battery far faster than either of the AC charger options, and the number of times you arrive anywhere absolutely flat and need to get a full battery in 7 hours rather than 10 would probably be vanishingly small, someone else may have a different opinion.
Agree, I would normally recharge overnight from about 20% to 80% which is comfortably done within the period of economy7. I can never envisage having to recharge from empty to full, just does not happen. So 7kw charging at home is perfectly adequate. If i am out, then unless somewhere offers me free destination charging I want a rapid.
 

·
Registered
Kona PremSe64k 2020+bluelink +ohme
Joined
·
495 Posts
The premium SE price now attracts the Luxury tax for 5 years, that's just the last straw for me. I went for the non-SE.
I ordered my Kona Premium SE back in December 2019 and the price on the order form that I have to pay (incl Pulse red) is £38015.00. This I assume is the P11D price. Am I missing something?

Btw delivery is set for April,

On the subject of charging rate I would need to spend well over £1k to get three-phase I think. Therefore I am ignoring that subject.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,448 Posts
It is odd they say 10.5kW as generally 3 phase charging is 3x16Ax230V so 11kW. A few cars (Zoe is main one) support 3x32Ax230V so 22kW. Note that although the difference between two phases is ~440V, the charger modules are wired phase to neutral so run 230V nominal.

To date, all cars with 3 phase 16A charging will switch a second module to single phase to achieve 32A - the only exception being the B250e. The main benefit of 11kW is 50% faster charging on 22kW destination or workplace chargers - not as common as 7kW but they are increasing. It isn't generally cost effective to install 3 phase at home for the 50% increase as 7kW is usually more than enough to top up a car overnight.

The 3-phase charger option, 10.5 kW apparently, is aimed at European countries that use domestic 3-phase power, unlike the single-phase power used most everywhere else including the UK.
In our house in Spain we have single phase, but cannot get a supply that would allow 7kW charging. If we upgrade to 3 phase (at significant cost) we could probably accomodate around 6kW charging, maybe more if it was load sensing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: giora

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,155 Posts
I ordered my Kona Premium SE back in December 2019 and the price on the order form that I have to pay (incl Pulse red) is £38015.00. This I assume is the P11D price. Am I missing something?

On the subject of charging rate I would need to spend well over £1k to get three-phase I think. Therefore I am ignoring that subject.
Afraid you're not counting the government subsidy of £3,500. Add that back in and the official RRP becomes well over £40k so you'll be liable for LCT (£320 in one years time and still payable for 4 more years - but rate could change in every budget !)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
I ordered my Kona Premium SE back in December 2019 and the price on the order form that I have to pay (incl Pulse red) is £38015.00. This I assume is the P11D price. Am I missing something?

Btw delivery is set for April,
List price + paint - PiCG : £40,950 + £565 - £3500 = £38015
Luxury tax is paid on cars where the list price is above 40K (Vehicle tax rates :mad: )
Has the dealer misled you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank you all so very much for explaining to me what the chargers on the Kona are all about. Looking at the What Car prices I probably will go for the 10.5 kW charger because oddly the car is cheaper than the 7 kW.

According to What Car Target price for the Kona150kW Premium SE 64kW ( 10.5kW Charger) is £40,144 with the manufacturer Price being £40,950

Whereas the Kona Premium 64kW (10.5 Charger) target price is £37,841 with the manufacturer price being

Oddly the Kona Premium 64kW (7 kW charger) target price is more expensive at £38,300 with the manufacturer price also being £38,300.

For those eager to get your hands on a Kona150kW Premium SE you might be interested to know that I test drove one just before Christmas because it had just been delivered to the dealer the day before. It hadn't been registered at that stage so I had to drive it on dealer plates and it still had some of the plastic wrapping on it.

It only had about 30 miles on the odometer so I was surprised when they asked me if I wanted to buy it, adding that they would give it a check over the next day and I could then collect it. However, there was a catch. I found out the price would be over £40,000 and I would not receive the Government's £3,500 grant. That had apparently already been claimed. I declined the offer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Oops! sorry guys, I missed out the manufacturer price in the third paragraph. It should have been £38,300.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Can you buy two types of Kona in UK, i e one pahes and three phase loader ? Here in Germany they tell us that the old model was a one-phaes loader (max 7kW charg) and the new model (2020) will be delivered with three phase loader (11 kW). The "old" or 7 kW is not produced anymore
 

·
Registered
Kona Electric, EU base with heat pump
Joined
·
425 Posts
It's seems absurd that "What Car" discerns between these variations. It could be that the feature was introduced partly into the 2020 model year production and both versions are available until all the 1-ph examples are sold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Can you buy two types of Kona in UK, i e one pahes and three phase loader ? Here in Germany they tell us that the old model was a one-phaes loader (max 7kW charg) and the new model (2020) will be delivered with three phase loader (11 kW). The "old" or 7 kW is not produced anymore
As far as I've seen, the 2020 will have 3-phase as standard, though the first batch will have the old charger and a £300 discount.
It wouldn't surprise me if they ended up shipping different chargers in different regions - so few houses in the UK have 3-phase that I'm surprised they ever planned to offer it here.
 

·
Registered
Kona 64
Joined
·
577 Posts
According to this spec sheet for the 2020 Kona, Kia e-Niro '4' Specs confirmed and on Kia UK site. My positives and negatives
the 11 kW 3 phase charging time actually corresponds to about 9 kW (comparing to the quoted 7 kW charging time on the same sheet).
Plugged my mk1 into an Ecotricity charger at LFE on the M1 where the CCS has been replaced by type 2. I plugged in as on free vend. These units will be 3 phase. Per my dash car charging at 7.5kw. So getting 9kw is hardly earth shattering.
 

·
Registered
Kona Electric, EU base with heat pump
Joined
·
425 Posts
Whether the AC input is single or three phase the net result internal to the OBC after rectification is a DC bus that the switch-mode hardware can draw from. I would guess that the DC power output limitations are based solely on the capacity of that latter hardware, rather than the 3 x 16 amps P-N. At least we will have the option with Type 2. North American versions will be stuck with Type 1 (therefore only single phase) for the foreseeable future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Can you buy two types of Kona in UK, i e one pahes and three phase loader ? Here in Germany they tell us that the old model was a one-phaes loader (max 7kW charg) and the new model (2020) will be delivered with three phase loader (11 kW). The "old" or 7 kW is not produced anymore
Same situation in France, Manfredo52. I wasn't given any options for a "supplemental inverter for AC charging (single-phase or three-phase) :-( As a result, I'm frustrated at the same public AC charge points as I can get a max of 7kW charging whereas my neighbour (with an old Zoe & it's inverter under the bonnet) gets 21kW at the same public charging station :-(

Thank goodness for the DC option in the Kona.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top