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:rolleyes:
Whats am interlock? A switch? I wondered that but its got trip switches now so maybe just a little tingle!

Here are my leads and granny. not that happy with the granny it seems a little light and cheap but it seems to work well and goes up to 16 amps.

My extension is a 25m 2.5mm cable! Sure is a heavy beast!

View attachment 132682 View attachment 132683
Don't listen to the others, that looks great. Just don't leave the Commando joint or the charger brick on the ground where they could sit in water.
An interlocked outlet is one with a switch that can only be live with a plug in it. Mainly needed where you have children or stupid people around, so essential for me. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #123
So, learning the characteristics of the car continues. Yesterday I had a look at the effects of driving/charging etc on battery temperature.

I started at 66% SoC and a battery temperature of approx 18C and drove on country roads (up to 60mph) until the SoC was about 30% - by this time the battery temperature had risen to 23C. A fairly modest and espected rise.

I then did a rapid charge from 30% to 90%. (I was originally going to stop at 80% but the speed was still very high so I went a bit further to see where the point of diminishing returns is - which seems to be about 90%) This raised the battery temperature from 23C to 35C. :oops:

Now there is nothing wrong with 35C - it's roughly the optimal temperature for Lithium Ion for rapid charging as it's about where the cell resistance is lowest. However that 12C temperature rise was reached after only one rapid charge session in relatively mild weather after a lazy jaunt in the country.

I then drove at a slower speed (30mph areas) for a while on the way home and when I reached home the temperature had only dropped to 34C. Had I done a second country drive and then a second 30% to 90% rapid charge I could easily see the temperature being into the mid 40's after the second rapid charge. (another ~12C rise during charging, and the temperature dropped very little during the driving)

Also, had I started charging at 6kW as soon as I got home with a battery temperature of 34C, I reckon that the battery would be pushing 40C by the time it was finished charging as 6kW charging raises the temperature about 4-5C, so it would have sat for many hours hovering around 40C and a high SoC, which is less than optimal.

As it was, I have the charge timer set to 9am on the weekend so it was able to sit all evening and night before it started charging. This morning I checked the temperature towards the end of the charge session when it would have been the hottest during the charge and it was back down to 23C again.

The moral of the story is that in this fairly typical driving scenario, defering charging after getting home from a drive which included even just one rapid charge using the charge timer has reduced the peak temperature seen by the battery at high SoC (when it really matters) from potentially around 40C (and at the very least, 34C) down to 23C. If the journey hadn't involved a rapid charge the difference would have been quite a bit smaller as most of the temperature rise came from the rapid charge not the driving.

So a few bullet points:

* Unless you're pressing on at 70mph or more or driving with aggressive acceleration, driving only increases battery temperature a few degrees. In the driving I've done so far I've only seen rises of up to at most about 5C for 30-60 minutes of driving up to 60mph.

* A long rapid charging session raises the battery temperature, a LOT. 12C in my 30-90% charge. Multiple rapid charges in a row would be mostly cumulative, so after the 2nd or 3rd charge you could be at dangerously high temperatures unless the car throttles the charge rate. If you care about the long term longevity of the battery you probably shouldn't do more than one rapid charge per day or at the very most, two due to the battery cooling so slowly in between charges regardless of whether the car stands or is driven gently.

* The battery cools very, very slowly. During a 30 minute gentle drive at 30mph it only dropped by 1C, and after an hour standing it had still only dropped another 2C. However if the car is left to sit overnight (12+ hours) it will cool a lot. This makes the charge timer very beneficial especially if you have got home from a motorway trip that involved one or more rapid charges. The overnight rest before charging really does make a difference to the temperatures experienced by the battery at a high SoC.

40C is around the maximum temperature I'd ever want to see the battery get up to at a high SoC - although I believe the 30kWh Leaf will let the battery get to nearly 50C before it starts to throttle the charge rate.

As an interesting point of comparison, the battery in the Ion is actively cooled during a rapid charge and uses the following algorithm:

  • Any cells below 11C, charge rate is limited to 22kW, cooling fan off.
  • All cells between 11C and 20C, full 43kW charge rate, cooling fan off.
  • Any cells above 20C - cooling fan only (ambient air blown through the pack)
  • Any cells above 30C - cooling fan and A/C compressor to chill the air, with A/C power increasing towards 40C
  • Any cells above 40C - A/C on maximum and charge rate dropped back to 22kW again.
From that it's pretty easy to deduce that the ideal temperature the cooling system is aiming for is in the low 30's and that above 40 is considered to be overheating. Compared to that the Leaf's BMS really does push the cells hard if it doesn't throttle until nearly 50C.
 

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Discussion Starter #124 (Edited)
I've also got a better idea of driving efficiency under different conditions now, and the difference from the Ion is interesting.

In summer, no heater, slow driving (up to approx 50mph) the Ion is considerably more efficient. In 30mph zones I could routinely achieve 5.5 miles/kWh in the Ion (best ever about 5.8) - the best I've seen in the Leaf so far in the same conditions is 4.7, (128 miles range) and thats with the climate control off.

On my daily commute which is 35 miles round trip and approx 50/50 30mph residential/city and 50-60mph on the motorway I used to get about 5 miles/kWh on the Ion, on the Leaf I'm seeing about 4.2. (115 miles range)

Some of this can be attributed to much wider tyres (215/50 vs 145/65 and 175/55) and increased weight (1575Kg vs 1100Kg) except the Ioniq gets about the same numbers as the Ion at lower speeds and is a Leaf sized car...

Due to the larger battery and lower degradation the real world range I can achieve is still double, so definitely a net win despite the lower efficiency.

However where the Leaf starts to pull ahead is at high speed and when the heating is used. Efficiency in the Ion drops off a cliff face when you go from 50-70mph. The penalty for doing 70 is horrendous, and is the difference betwen making a destination with 15 miles left or running several miles short of making it. So I always stuck to 55-60 in the slow lane if I was doing anything remotely close to a range limited trip.

Part of this is aerodynamics - you can hear from the buffeting at that speed that the Ion's aerodynamics is poor, but another reason I've considered more recently is that the Leaf is probably higher geared to achieve it's higher top speed of 93mph vs 82mph of the Ion. Most PMS motors get significantly less efficient at high RPM and that's one thing that sets their maximum usable RPM. In the Ion 70mph is very close to its top speed so it's probably well into the "less efficient" area of operation of the motor, while the Leaf's motor is probably spinning slower due to higher gearing and is not as far into that less efficient high RPM region, hence the fall off in efficiency at 70mph is less severe.

On a motorway journey I can drive efficiently at about 60mph and achieve around 4.2 miles/kWh in the Leaf fairly easily, and if I increase to 70mph and drive "normally" as I would in an ICE, it only drops to around 3.9, which is a fairly small penalty compared to the Ion which goes WAY below 3.9 at 70mph. I found I only lost a few miles total range doing 70mph instead of 60mph, so while I still tend to stick to 60mph where safe, I don't have any qualms about doing 70 in the leaf on a journey where range is not tight. (Life is too short, etc...)

The heating is also an interesting comparison. The range loss from the heating in the Ion is horrendous - on my daily commute I used to lose 40% of my range in the winter turning the heater on... :oops: Due to this there was a strong incentive to turn the heater off for part of the journey if range was tight which meant a constant balancing of whether to turn off the heater or stop for a rapid charge...

The obvious difference is that the Leaf has a heat pump and the Ion doesn't but there is more to it than that when you dig a bit further. I suspect the Leaf is a lot better insulated than the Ion - the drivers floor area in particular was always cold on the Ion and the doors have very thin door cards, and the windscreen is large. In fact I recently noticed that due to no speakers being fitted in the rear doors you can see straight through the speaker slots through the hollow door to the outside skin of the door! :oops: The Leaf feels a lot better insulated to me so that is a good start.

The next difference is that the heater in the Ion is not just a resistance heater, it's a PTC water heater which heats a coolant loop which is then pumped through a traditional ICE heater matrix behind the dashboard. This is very inefficient and has many disadvantages including being slow to heat up - it takes about 5 minutes with it on full on a winter morning before the air is significantly warm as there is a lot of thermal mass in the PTC heater, coolant loop and heater matrix which has to heat up before you get any heat. (It's likewise slow to cool down which means latent heat is wasted at the end of your journey)

The pump itself uses energy and the PTC heater and pipes are outside the cabin so experience heat loss from the air stream when the car is driving. Peak power use is a whopping 5.5kW - during the several minute warm up phase it is a continuous 5.5kW, and once up to temperature (and depending on ambient conditions) the average power use with the heater on in the winter is around 3kW, and all that for air which is adequate but not particularly hot.

The Leaf heater is a revelation by comparison. It's interesting to watch on Leafspy how the resistance heater and heat pump work together. Even when the heater is cold and you turn it up to full temperature and fan speed, the peak power drawn is only about 2kw for the resistance element and 500 watts for the heat pump, so about 2.5kW vs 5.5kW in the Ion.

And it is fairly warm within 30 seconds and in about a minute it is ICE car scalding hot - far hotter than the heater in the Ion ever gets.

Then after a few minutes the resistance heater throttles back or goes completely off and leaves the heat pump running at around 500-600 watts. The air vent temperature at this point does drop back a bit from scalding hot to just fairly warm, however that may be the control algorithm noticing that the ambient temperature was 14C during the test, I suspect when it is genuinely cold outside it will run the heat pump to a higher power level. (Since it can operate at up to 1kW in cooling mode)

So peak heater power use even during warm up is less than half the Ion, and steady state power use once the resistance heater has throttled back is less than 1/3rd. These figures are all based on setting temperature and fan speed to maximum, with a more normal temperature it quickly drops back to very low power levels.

The end result is that the range penatly from the heater is very little compared to the Ion, at least in mild weather. In the Ion I always used to drive with the heater off unless I really really needed it, I was initially driving the Leaf with the heater off as well but the power use is so low when a small amount of heating is needed as to be insignificant.

One minor disapointment though is the heat pump doesn't seem to be able to reconfigure itself into a dehumidify mode (which requires additional ducts and control flaps) which I believe the Zoe can ? If you turn on both heater and A/C at the same time it just seems to switch the heat pump into A/C mode and provide all heating from the resistance heater.

So power use from Heat+A/C is much higher than Heat alone, as it always forces the resistance heater to come on. However even in this mode power use is dramatically lower than the Ion as the air space resistance heater is more efficient than the water heater system in the Ion.

On the whole I'm very impressed with the climate control system in the Leaf - even the Auto mode seems to work quite well, and I'm someone that usually prefers manual control over climate control settings.

In a perverted way I can't wait for winter - the daily commute is going to be fairly warm and luxurious compared to what I'm used to thanks to the much improved climate control, battery size and insulation!! :)
 

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Some of this can be attributed to much wider tyres (215/50 vs 145/65 and 175/55)
The LEAF is significantly more efficient on the Accenta 205/55 16 wheels. Part of that is the slightly smaller rolling circumference, part due to the reduced width, but there must be another factor which I can't explain.
the peak power drawn is only about 2kw for the resistance element and 500 watts for the heat pump, so about 2.5kW vs 5.5kW in the Ion
The PTC heater is rated at 5kW, interesting that it uses so little but perhaps that's for the non-heat pump cars.
 

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Your missing a few things here though.

As the temp increases and the resistance drops, the temp gain from a second rapid isn't as much.
Also when diving the temp gain isn't as much if not Ross due to the above.

When driving as well the temperature will drop if your staying at a steady sedate speed. Country driving warms up any vehicle internals, you can see this on a Xantia V6 quickly compared to jumping straight back on the motorway at s cruise. That constant airflow helps a lot.

That extra 5% from 85-90% charge makes a big difference. Yes the rate doesn't drop as much as you'd think but the heat is building up more and more.
At high temps the leaf does shed heat decently well when on the move.

And due to the lower resistance, if did so a 6kw charge as soon as you got home, id be very surprised if the battery temp increased at all as the warmer battery would have lower resistance again. It's the resistance as you've said that creates the heat and at 6kw, with that quickly dropping down after less than an hour's charge when starting at say 85% SoC, the temp won't increase as much as starting from a lower SoC.


Where the car is parked has a big bearing to. Out in bright sun on a drive with no draught across it the battery will.of course heat soak from the car, dark interiors don't help this either as the heat inside the car on some sunny days can easily be 50'c if you let it.

I believe the leaf either has the heat pump or resistive heater, it doesn't have both.

I've tried this a few times and as I advise friends with them, sticking both heat & AC on doesn't consume more power. You cs easily see this when you look at the GOM.
Turn AC on and range drops. Turn heat on when AC is already on and it doesn't change.

In winter alternating the two has the same range drop on the GOM too.
The env200 still has a resistive heater u believe but any tekna 30kwh and above certainly should not have one in the system. I've never seen one in the many images of broken teknas that come up online and in Facebook groups, but maybe I'm wrong and one of the leaf super pros on here like @Mike Schooling could chip in on this?
 

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Which is a very long way of saying.... polish the windscreen over the rain sensor with some good glass polish. This will improve the sensitivity. I tend to find that rain-repellent coatings don't work well on windscreens (They're great for a few weeks, then become horrendously smeary for many months until they finally wear away completely), so I'd suggest just polish the screen up well to smooth out the wiper scratches and to clean away greasy/waxy contaminants that smear, then keep it as free from waxes etc as possible.
Pro car detailers know of a trick to really clean a windscreen that uses very fine dry wire wool to remove all imperfections before treating with your favourite water repellent and glass cleaner. You would think that it would scratch the glass - but they claim otherwise. I've seen a few such tips over the years and not a single warning about damage so it must work. Here is a typical vid on the subject but there are many.

 

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In the 19 months we had the leaf I mostly used it for commuting. I was doing 25 miles round trip per day, with charging availability at both ends of my journey so I simply did not care about efficiency during commuting. I would routinely use full throttle when joining motorways (M62 J21 => J20, A627M south to chadderton) and would keep up with/pass other traffic. I would use the heater with only comfort in mind, not saving a few pennies. In that usage it would be around 3-3.3 mi/kWh.

When travelling on long journeys I would cruise in the slow lane, keeping pace with HGVs and could return high 4s.

Worth noting is that the Leaf speedo has a reputation for significant over-read, although it seems like it's less bad on the Tekna (which would make sense if they've not re-calibrated it - the 215/50R17 is 794 revolutions per mile, vs 813 for the 205/55R16). Certainly I found that the over-read was significant enough that according to the speedo I once did what is not possible (did you know the speedo has a third 1/2 digit?). I found that keeping a set distance from an HGV travelling at a limited 56mph would give me 61mph on the Leaf (tekna) speedo. It was quite a shock going to the model 3 which has a really accurate speedo (no idea if they've done some clever GPS+inertial+wheel speed algorithm that self-calibrates. Wouldn't be difficult in a software-defined environment like that).

One trick for winter travel with the Leaf is to blast the heater for a few minutes before leaving a rapid-charger, especially with the Leaf 24 where anything above 50% SoC isn't drawing the maximum from the charger (ie the power is delivered on top of what the battery can take). Get as much heat in the car as you can at the point where the charger isn't delivering the full whack to the battery (and yes, the window for that is much smaller in the 30 - but perhaps true 50kW chargers will still provide), because that will keep you warm for the next 10 minutes at least, and means that the heat pump can be operating in the ~500W range without needing to use a big slug of energy to get the cabin up to temperature. You must switch the Leaf off to start a charge, but once it is charging on the rapid you can press the power button twice to wake everything back up and use the heater.

With regard aerodynamics.... I looked into this a while back, and just did some really basic comparative numbers of different EVs (the Ion was not one of them) - i mean really basic stuff (just published width and height for frontal area fed into the drag equation with each car's Cd). The Leaf at 60mph was experiencing about the same drag force as the Soul at 50mph and the model 3 and Hyundai Ioniq at 70mph. The i-miev has pretty terrible drag coefficient (probably because of the vertical back end), similar to the Soul but with a smaller frontal area. The i-miev frontal area isn't as much less than the Leaf as you might think (2.37m^2 vs 2.74m^2), so overall the leaf is experiencing less drag force at a given speed (sometime I'll add the i-miev into the spreadsheet and see by how much). Obviously rolling resistance is another matter.

The Ioniq is just stonkingly efficient in the real world. A colleague of mine recently got a 38, and it's his first EV. With no attempt at hypermiling, going 72 indicated on motorways, etc he's getting an average 4.8mi/kWh. The model 3 is brilliantly efficient at speed and in warm temperatures, but lack of heat pump and many "losses" (eg idle drain, sentry mode, battery pre-conditioning, autopilot system (at 50mph uses about 3Wh/mi - and it's always active, regardless of whether you enable AP or not)) mean it's real-world efficiency isn't all that. Leaf is not brilliantly efficient on the move in terms of motor, the heating is pretty good and it's fine with regard to idle drop (Left ours for 3 weeks once when on holiday, dropped maybe 1-2% SoC. Make sure you leave it unplugged, otherwise it won't maintain the 12V) so overall I find I use about the same amount of electricity with the 3 as with the Leaf 24 (but again, I drive the 3 to enjoy, not to hypermile, and I motorway cruise at 75 indicated typically which just wasn't feasible in the Leaf). If I were doing more long journeys the 3 would be using less than a leaf, if I were doing more short journeys then the Leaf would use less than the 3. Ultimately I find that one of the most liberating things about EVs and the low cost of running them is that I enjoy using the car to the full, whereas seeing the mpg-o-meter on ICE cars plummet (and literally costing £s more to have a bit of fun) would put a dampener on things. The Leaf 30 puts you in a position, at least from a day-to-day standpoint of your normal commuting and usage, where you can do the same - enjoy the car with full heating/climate, year-around without having to even think about saving a few watts here or there to make it home. The differences of a few pennies between hypermiling home and having a blast surely isn't worth the bother?
 

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The LEAF is significantly more efficient on the Accenta 205/55 16 wheels. Part of that is the slightly smaller rolling circumference, part due to the reduced width, but there must be another factor which I can't explain.

The PTC heater is rated at 5kW, interesting that it uses so little but perhaps that's for the non-heat pump cars.
The reduced weight of the wheel helps as well.
 

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Pro car detailers know of a trick to really clean a windscreen that uses very fine dry wire wool to remove all imperfections before treating with your favourite water repellent and glass cleaner. You would think that it would scratch the glass - but they claim otherwise. I've seen a few such tips over the years and not a single warning about damage so it must work. Here is a typical vid on the subject but there are many.

I'd be very worried this was t some kind of blinker fluid type video...

Just some washing up liquid to strip the grease off and a claybar for the remainder.
 

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I'd be very worried this was some kind of blinker fluid type video...
Worry away.

But the well-known EV YouTuber known as EVM was once a pro car detailer and some time back he also made a video on the use of steel wool for windscreen cleaning and demonstrated the method. He did make a comment about it being counter-intuitive but perfectly safe.

Most people will 'worry' as you do but apparently pro detailers working under time pressure and a desire to produce great customer feedback find that treating with very fine steel wool first gives the best results.

As I said, there are numerous YT videos out there on this subject but you are not compelled to listen to such advice if you are in any way concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter #132
The LEAF is significantly more efficient on the Accenta 205/55 16 wheels. Part of that is the slightly smaller rolling circumference, part due to the reduced width, but there must be another factor which I can't explain.
Yeah, I kind of guessed the efficiency would be a little bit worse on the Tekna wheels, given a choice I would have had a Tekna with Accenta wheels for cheaper tyres, slightly better ride (?) and efficiency, but I really wanted the Leather heated seats and heated steering wheel. (The seat and steering wheel heaters are brilliant btw) I suppose in theory I could buy some Accenta wheels, but I probably won't given I prefer how the Tekna wheels look.
The PTC heater is rated at 5kW, interesting that it uses so little but perhaps that's for the non-heat pump cars.
Even with the temperature and fan turned up to maximum on manual control I could only get the PTC heater to draw about 2kW and the heat pump about 600 watts. It's quite possible though that the climate ECU was limiting the power output because it knew the outside temperature was 14C, with a sub zero outside temperature it may well crank them both up a bit higher. I guess I'll find out in a few months...
 

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Discussion Starter #133
Your missing a few things here though.

As the temp increases and the resistance drops, the temp gain from a second rapid isn't as much.
Also when diving the temp gain isn't as much if not Ross due to the above.
You have a point, however the resistance drop between 20C and 40C isn't very much. Cell resistance in Lithium Ion doesn't really start to increase a lot until you get down to around 10C and really starts to climb below freezing. It reaches a minimum at around 40C but that minimum isn't a lot less than at 20C.

So charging warming the battery and reducing resistance significantly is mainly a thing if the battery is starting below about 10C to begin with.
When driving as well the temperature will drop if your staying at a steady sedate speed. Country driving warms up any vehicle internals, you can see this on a Xantia V6 quickly compared to jumping straight back on the motorway at s cruise. That constant airflow helps a lot.
We did another motorway trip today - about 45 minutes and the cell temperatures went up about 3 degrees from 21C to 24C, not down. Perhaps if the temperature started at 40C it might have gone down slightly, perhaps not. My impression is that road speed air flow over the battery pack has precious little effect - eg the battery pack is well insulated.
That extra 5% from 85-90% charge makes a big difference. Yes the rate doesn't drop as much as you'd think but the heat is building up more and more.
At high temps the leaf does shed heat decently well when on the move.
I would normally only rapid charge to 80% unless I really needed the range. One reason would be to avoid going to a high SoC while the battery is hot. I went to a bit more than 90% mainly just to see what the throttling curve was on Leafspy.
And due to the lower resistance, if did so a 6kw charge as soon as you got home, id be very surprised if the battery temp increased at all as the warmer battery would have lower resistance again. It's the resistance as you've said that creates the heat and at 6kw, with that quickly dropping down after less than an hour's charge when starting at say 85% SoC, the temp won't increase as much as starting from a lower SoC.
6kW charging definitely increases the temperature not reduces it. It goes up approx 5C charging from 30% to 100% with a starting temperature in the 20's.. I'll do some more accurate monitoring in the future to get a better idea of the effects.
I believe the leaf either has the heat pump or resistive heater, it doesn't have both.
No, the heat pump models definitely have a PTC heater as well - they have to as a heat pump can't produce enough heat by itself with an ambient temperature below about -10C. The resistance heater can work in conjunction with the heat pump by "pre-warming" the airflow to the heat pump which increases the coefficient of performance of the heat pump in addition to adding heat of it's own.

This means in very cold sub zero ambient conditions if the resistance heater runs at say 1000 watts you actually get more than 1000 watts increase in heat output because you're not just adding 1000 watts of heat, you're also increasing the COP of the heat pump. So the penalty of running the resistance heater together with the heat pump in very cold conditions is reduced as it makes the heat pump more effective.

In warmer ambient conditions and/or when less heat is needed the resistance heater only runs for a minute or two then starts dropping back and turns off completely leaving only the heat pump operating. You can see this happening on Leafspy.

On Leafspy the "Heater" bar in the bar graph is the resistance heater and the "A/C" bar is the heat pump - this will show as drawing power regardless of whether the heat pump is in cooling or heating mode, Leafspy doesn't seem to be able to distinguish the two modes, just show how much power the compressor is using.

One reason the resisance heater comes on initially is the heat pump takes a while to get going properly (a minute or two) so the resistance heater gives the fast heat up performance then dials itself back or goes right off once the heat pump is fully operating.
I've tried this a few times and as I advise friends with them, sticking both heat & AC on doesn't consume more power. You cs easily see this when you look at the GOM.
Turn AC on and range drops. Turn heat on when AC is already on and it doesn't change.

In winter alternating the two has the same range drop on the GOM too.
Don't read too much into the GOM range estimate. I'm more inclined to trust the power consumption figures shown in Leafspy. In the testing I did turning heating and AC buttons both on forced the resistance heater to continue running, whereas heat only allowed it to dial back and then shut off the resistance heater and rely only on the heat pump after a couple of minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #134
Worth noting is that the Leaf speedo has a reputation for significant over-read, although it seems like it's less bad on the Tekna (which would make sense if they've not re-calibrated it - the 215/50R17 is 794 revolutions per mile, vs 813 for the 205/55R16). Certainly I found that the over-read was significant enough that according to the speedo I once did what is not possible (did you know the speedo has a third 1/2 digit?). I found that keeping a set distance from an HGV travelling at a limited 56mph would give me 61mph on the Leaf (tekna) speedo. It was quite a shock going to the model 3 which has a really accurate speedo (no idea if they've done some clever GPS+inertial+wheel speed algorithm that self-calibrates. Wouldn't be difficult in a software-defined environment like that).
Mine over-reads the speed by about 10%. (77mph indicated is 70mph according to my dashcam GPS)
One trick for winter travel with the Leaf is to blast the heater for a few minutes before leaving a rapid-charger, especially with the Leaf 24 where anything above 50% SoC isn't drawing the maximum from the charger (ie the power is delivered on top of what the battery can take). Get as much heat in the car as you can at the point where the charger isn't delivering the full whack to the battery (and yes, the window for that is much smaller in the 30 - but perhaps true 50kW chargers will still provide), because that will keep you warm for the next 10 minutes at least, and means that the heat pump can be operating in the ~500W range without needing to use a big slug of energy to get the cabin up to temperature. You must switch the Leaf off to start a charge, but once it is charging on the rapid you can press the power button twice to wake everything back up and use the heater.
Don't worry, using the heater during rapid charging in winter is something I'm looking forward to, after many very cold rapid charges in the Ion. :) (You can't run the heater while charging on an Ion)

The 30kWh seemed to maintain a full 47kW up to about 75% SoC but this will be dependent on battery temperature. With a colder battery in winter it will start to throttle earlier than this due to higher cell internal resistance.
With regard aerodynamics.... I looked into this a while back, and just did some really basic comparative numbers of different EVs (the Ion was not one of them) - i mean really basic stuff (just published width and height for frontal area fed into the drag equation with each car's Cd). The Leaf at 60mph was experiencing about the same drag force as the Soul at 50mph and the model 3 and Hyundai Ioniq at 70mph. The i-miev has pretty terrible drag coefficient (probably because of the vertical back end), similar to the Soul but with a smaller frontal area. The i-miev frontal area isn't as much less than the Leaf as you might think (2.37m^2 vs 2.74m^2), so overall the leaf is experiencing less drag force at a given speed (sometime I'll add the i-miev into the spreadsheet and see by how much). Obviously rolling resistance is another matter.
The Ion and i-Miev are identical so your figures for that would apply.
The Ioniq is just stonkingly efficient in the real world. A colleague of mine recently got a 38, and it's his first EV. With no attempt at hypermiling, going 72 indicated on motorways, etc he's getting an average 4.8mi/kWh. The model 3 is brilliantly efficient at speed and in warm temperatures, but lack of heat pump and many "losses" (eg idle drain, sentry mode, battery pre-conditioning, autopilot system (at 50mph uses about 3Wh/mi - and it's always active, regardless of whether you enable AP or not)) mean it's real-world efficiency isn't all that.
Yeah, the Ioniq is truly impressive with it's efficency. It has a super efficient drive train, climate control and low drag all in one. The Ion has a very efficient drivetrain below 50mph (it can equal the numbers for the Ioniq <50mph with the heater off) but a super inefficient heater (probably made worse by poor insulation and draughts) and due to either poor aerodynamics or motor gearing or both is also very inefficient at high speed.
The Leaf 30 puts you in a position, at least from a day-to-day standpoint of your normal commuting and usage, where you can do the same - enjoy the car with full heating/climate, year-around without having to even think about saving a few watts here or there to make it home. The differences of a few pennies between hypermiling home and having a blast surely isn't worth the bother?
Yeah, that's the position I'm in now. My commute is 35 miles, sometimes we might do a few extra miles if we divert to a supermarket. In the Ion (including accumulated battery degradation) I couldn't actually make the trip with the heater on all the way in the winter so it was either a splash and dash at an instavolt on the way home or suffer with no heater and just heated seat covers the last 10 miles home, arriving close to turtle mode with freezing limbs... And I'd have to drive efficiently for the entire trip to even manage that. If there were any traffic snarl ups, closed roads etc, forget it. Not fun. Anxiety central.

In the current weather I'm getting home in the Leaf with 79 miles left if I drive efficiently similarly to how I drove the Ion or 69 miles left if I drive it without special care as if it was my ICE. Makes no odds really, I might as well drive as I please with that much left over and enjoy the drive.

Not sure yet what I'll manage in winter, but even if I arrive home with say 45 miles left while using plenty of heater that's still a huge buffer compared to what I'm used to. Might as well be warm and comfortable and drive how I want to.
 

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I'd be interested to see where the PTC sits in these heatpump models as I've never seen one mentioned in any breakers strips downs and not one tech has mentioned about it when I've been at dealers talking to them while working.

You could go even lighter with the wheels and get the 16" steel wheels, it's the weight that has the biggest impact I think on range more than anything.

6kw charging won't drop a temp per se but I've yet to see it increase it when I've been travelling, much like the air cooling effect. I've done numerous long distance runs and when the battery gets into the 40's in the UK summer climate while charging, it still starts dropping slowly when you get driving. The crux is not pushing past that 80-85% mark as from my own experience, it takes much longer to shed that heat then.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
I'd be interested to see where the PTC sits in these heatpump models as I've never seen one mentioned in any breakers strips downs and not one tech has mentioned about it when I've been at dealers talking to them while working.
There's a bit of discussion about the blending/switch over between the resistance heater and heat pump in this thread:

 

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There's a bit of discussion about the blending/switch over between the resistance heater and heat pump in this thread:

There's a bit of discussion about the blending/switch over between the resistance heater and heat pump in this thread:

My bad on that then. Though I am wondering if it's like some other cars in other markets and the build spec is different for the UK market? IE we don't get it as we are viewed as not often enough getting that cold?

I can't think of any time by leaf has been past -10c, and that's in any of my leafs...
 

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Discussion Starter #138
My bad on that then. Though I am wondering if it's like some other cars in other markets and the build spec is different for the UK market? IE we don't get it as we are viewed as not often enough getting that cold?

I can't think of any time by leaf has been past -10c, and that's in any of my leafs...
I managed to find this block diagram (which I've seen before but couldn't remember where) as well, which shows a PTC heater listed along with the heat pump, also a bit of discussion later in the thread that says it's described in the service manual:


As far as I know all Leaf's with heat pump have a resistance heater too and the climate control system automatically chooses to use one or the other or blend them together based on many different factors like outside temperature and how high you set the interior temperature.

If you have Leafspy have a look a the energy use bar graph page when you first turn the heater up high then watch the proprtions change as the cabin comes up to temperature.
 

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I managed to find this block diagram (which I've seen before but couldn't remember where) as well, which shows a PTC heater listed along with the heat pump, also a bit of discussion later in the thread that says it's described in the service manual:


As far as I know all Leaf's with heat pump have a resistance heater too and the climate control system automatically chooses to use one or the other or blend them together based on many different factors like outside temperature and how high you set the interior temperature.

If you have Leafspy have a look a the energy use bar graph page when you first turn the heater up high then watch the proprtions change as the cabin comes up to temperature.
I used to watch leafspy like a hawk at times but I don't recall it ever spiking by a huge amount for more than a few seconds which I just put down to the pump kicking in and being a large initial draw.

Would be interesting to see how much it actually gets used in the UK though as I can't imagine it's often.
 

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Discussion Starter #140 (Edited)
So I'm thinking of swapping the front and rear wheels on the Leaf soon as the rears are near new tread depth while the fronts are part worn, (about 2mm less than the rears) so it's overdue needing them swapped to equalise the wear. (Apparently the previous owner and/or Nissan haven't bothered)

I have Leafspy pro and I see it has an option for programming the TPMS sensor locations, but has anyone actually been through this process successfully who could give me a bit more detail about what steps they actually followed ? (Leafspy's UI is pretty unintuitive to say the least, so I don't want to mess up the TPMS configuration trying)

I assume from Leaf Spy having the option to do this that the Leaf is not a car which auto-assigns the TPMS sensors when wheels are swapped around ? (based on proximity to separate antennas in each wheel arch)

How did you test that the correct sensor was assigned to the correct wheel ? Just set all tyres temporarily to four distinct pressures then check the values in Leafspy were where you expected them to be ?
 
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