Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,835 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So the kids have a Kindle Fire HDX and I have borrowed an OBD2 Bluetooth dongle and figured I'd give this a go.

I'll quickly post some details on how it went setting up, and beyond that I have more questions than answers as it seems hard to find simple, clear details on what is what.

Please note I can only find LEAF Spy Lite in the Kindle store, so some of the fancier output is missing, but hey-ho...

Installing and using.

That wasn't to bad, the Power2 OBD2 dongle worked straight off, and the kind saw and paired with it. The only problem was LEAF Spy Lite couldn't see it. I tried restarting the app and that didn't work either. I finally "turned it off and on again", and sure enough, LEAF Spy Lite was suddenly happy and reading the data.

Some numbers and basic testing.

I have a Gen 2 LEAF, UK built, mid July collection. Here are some numbers...

Bat stats at 5,544 miles:
  • Ahr: 63.11
  • SOH: 96%
  • Hx: 97.10%
  • Quick charges: 29
  • L1/L2 charges: 339
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage before journey:
  • Car: 54%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 56.3%
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage after journey:
  • Car 43%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 48%
Battery temp was around 55 (assume Fahrenheit) the entire time, outside temp 7 Celsius.

I'm slightly confused about the percentages and how to calculate a margin of error (%) based on those figures.

Also I got the impression that the LEAF display would be high, based purely on conversations on here regarding my percentages showing at charges etc. However it appears the car (and chargers) under report in my case, so when I get to 80+ percent stated, I'm actually over that (if LEAF Spy is more accurate?).

Also, can someone explain what AHr (Amp Hour rate), SOH (State Of Health?) and Hx (?) are in "real terms"?

For example AHr was described as a measure of health that will decrease over time... but what should it start at, how should we expect it to go down (at what rate)? Leyman's terms possible?!

*** EDITS AND UPDATES ***

LEAF Ah should start around 66.2 as it has two 33.1 Ah cells in parallel, according to wikipedia and other sources. I think LEAF Spy simplifies this as a target of 66 Ah as 100%, which is how it calculates SOH (state of health?).

Apparently Hx is "health" according to various posts on the US Nissan LEAF forum, but I don't know how that measure is calculated, or why it is different to SOH?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,835 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I shall look into all this myself but for now... here are 46 pages of forum posts discussing the figures...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12789&hilit=ahr
Thanks, but that's exactly what I didn't need to be honest. I already started looking at that earlier, got confused, bored, carried on with life, as I'm sure many others will!

I was hoping for something more succinct to educate myself and share with others coming in from those more knowledgeable than I. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
Something worth remembering when looking at figures from Leaf Spy or LeafDD is that these are not definitive.

The guys that developed these apps have done it without much, if any, official input from Nissan. They have back-engineered the CAN bus messages and decoded the data and tried to determine their meaning.

I think it very likely that they are pretty close to fact now as they have had thousands testing out their assumptions and they do look like they are close to the facts but we must remember the history... these figures are educated guesses albeit very likely to be true or very close to true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
I have leaf spy up and running on my 3 year old gen 1 LEAF,
here are some figures to compare to yours

AHr = 57.54,
SOH = 87%
Hx = 75.25%
11 QC, 816 L1
SOC = 95% at 100% battery and 100 miles on GOM.
odo = 40,765 km (25k miles)

guess I'm going to lose that first bar soon (SOH ~ 85%)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
Yeah I think it is the normal aging of the battery. It does seem slightly ahead of the curve, but mind you that curve is pretty steep at first. I'm not too worried I'm going to run this car into the ground and possibly buy a new battery at towards the end of its life. It will still pay for itself in fuel savings.
On the American LEAF forum users say the first bar goes around Ahr = 55, second bar at 51, 3rd at 47.
Their car batteries are aging much faster than ours, mainly due to the temperature effects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,171 Posts
I don't know if the app is accurate, but i have just plugged mine in and with a 50% charge i am getting the following figures:
  • AHr: 67.36
  • SOH: 100%
  • Hx: 106.64%
  • Quick charges: 30
  • L1/L2 charges: 494
  • Odo = 10,540
I have very similar stats to you.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
My car is very similar to the figures posted for the 3 year old one above. It's not even 2.5 yet but was sitting around a while - perhaps a year before sale...

It does seem that the 2013 MY cars are doing even better than their lower age would suggest? I know nissan tweaked the chemistry/pack so perhaps this is being demonstrated here. Or am I just optimistic?

My car is on lease expiring May 2015. At this point my most likely action is a 2 yr lease on a new leaf. A 2nd hand leaf is another option as would be the i3, except for cost. I so wish for that extended range battery option!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,835 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Some numbers and basic testing.

I have a Gen 2 LEAF, UK built, mid July collection. Here are some numbers...

Bat stats at 5,544 miles:
  • Ahr: 63.11
  • SOH: 96%
  • Hx: 97.10%
  • Quick charges: 29
  • L1/L2 charges: 339
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage before journey:
  • Car: 54%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 56.3%
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage after journey:
  • Car 43%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 48%
Battery temp was around 55 (assume Fahrenheit) the entire time, outside temp 7 Celsius.

I'm slightly confused about the percentages and how to calculate a margin of error (%) based on those figures.

Also I got the impression that the LEAF display would be high, based purely on conversations on here regarding my percentages showing at charges etc. However it appears the car (and chargers) under report in my case, so when I get to 80+ percent stated, I'm actually over that (if LEAF Spy is more accurate?).

Also, can someone explain what AHr (Amp Hour rate), SOH (State Of Health?) and Hx (?) are in "real terms"?

For example AHr was described as a measure of health that will decrease over time... but what should it start at, how should we expect it to go down (at what rate)? Leyman's terms possible?!

*** EDITS AND UPDATES ***

LEAF Ah should start around 66.2 as it has two 33.1 Ah cells in parallel, according to wikipedia and other sources. I think LEAF Spy simplifies this as a target of 66 Ah as 100%, which is how it calculates SOH (state of health?).

Apparently Hx is "health" according to various posts on the US Nissan LEAF forum, but I don't know how that measure is calculated, or why it is different to SOH?
LeafDD numbers from today. 10,500 miles and 15 months old.

2014-09-20 17.15.44.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
11 month old gen2, 14,645 miles.
Ahr: 67.36
SOH:100% (this is a customisable value as I reset the base Ahr setting in configuration to the reading at new, luckily I haven't decreased from new figure as yet)
Hx: 110.51% (this is the internal pack resistance. Higher the number the better although I've never seen it vary more than 108% to 121%)
84 quick charges
732 L1/L2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
A very basic question about Leaf Spy: how do you get it to talk to your car?

Bear in mind when answering that I am either a) a time traveller from the future, used to telepathic user interfaces, semi-precognitive systems and advanced artificial intelligences, and thus don't understand ancient technology or b) someone who last programmed a computer in about 1985 and doesn't have a smart phone.

However, my wife does have a smart phone, bought last month. A Galaxy Y, if that makes a difference. We successfully managed to connect it to Wi-Fi and download the Leaf Spy Lite* App (this itself represents a triumph of almost unimaginable proportions). However, at this point we don't know what to do and couldn't find any instructions - at least none that were written at a sufficiently basic level. Do we simply sit in the car, turn it on and hope that the phone communicates with the car? Or do we need to do something else? Do we need a dongle (mentioned above) and if so, what is one in this context and where does it go - I'm guessing it's some sort of bluetooth transmitter which plugs into the car somewhere. Then what?

I would ask our teenaged sons but a) they are in bed and b) I wish to retain my mystique as an all-wise figure for as long as possible (it may already be too late).

* in the future we spell this "light"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
You need a special bluetooth dongle like this...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BMHAILG

It plugs into the diagnostic port under the steering wheel. You then connect to the dongle via the phone's Bluetooth and LeafSpy can then read the data.

It is all pretty easy and if you get stuck just shout... a lot of us here use LeafSpy :) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
Leaf spy isn't an app for the inexperienced. It is written by an engineer who has gone into very complicated depths to decode the cars communication bus and interact with it. If you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't be using the app.
It involves connecting a blue tooth OBD dongle into the cars diagnostic port (reserved for mechanics to diagnose issues with the car), you pair your phone with thw dongle and tell leafspy which com port the dongle is on. The information presented is hard to understand if you don't understand the where the information is coming from and what it means.
This is the reason there is no basic guide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
So the kids have a Kindle Fire HDX and I have borrowed an OBD2 Bluetooth dongle and figured I'd give this a go.

I'll quickly post some details on how it went setting up, and beyond that I have more questions than answers as it seems hard to find simple, clear details on what is what.

Please note I can only find LEAF Spy Lite in the Kindle store, so some of the fancier output is missing, but hey-ho...

Installing and using.

That wasn't to bad, the Power2 OBD2 dongle worked straight off, and the kind saw and paired with it. The only problem was LEAF Spy Lite couldn't see it. I tried restarting the app and that didn't work either. I finally "turned it off and on again", and sure enough, LEAF Spy Lite was suddenly happy and reading the data.

Some numbers and basic testing.

I have a Gen 2 LEAF, UK built, mid July collection. Here are some numbers...

Bat stats at 5,544 miles:
  • Ahr: 63.11
  • SOH: 96%
  • Hx: 97.10%
  • Quick charges: 29
  • L1/L2 charges: 339
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage before journey:
  • Car: 54%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 56.3%
Car vs LEAF Spy Lite battery percentage after journey:
  • Car 43%
  • LEAF Spy Lite: 48%
Battery temp was around 55 (assume Fahrenheit) the entire time, outside temp 7 Celsius.

I'm slightly confused about the percentages and how to calculate a margin of error (%) based on those figures.

Also I got the impression that the LEAF display would be high, based purely on conversations on here regarding my percentages showing at charges etc. However it appears the car (and chargers) under report in my case, so when I get to 80+ percent stated, I'm actually over that (if LEAF Spy is more accurate?).

Also, can someone explain what AHr (Amp Hour rate), SOH (State Of Health?) and Hx (?) are in "real terms"?

For example AHr was described as a measure of health that will decrease over time... but what should it start at, how should we expect it to go down (at what rate)? Leyman's terms possible?!

*** EDITS AND UPDATES ***

LEAF Ah should start around 66.2 as it has two 33.1 Ah cells in parallel, according to wikipedia and other sources. I think LEAF Spy simplifies this as a target of 66 Ah as 100%, which is how it calculates SOH (state of health?).

Apparently Hx is "health" according to various posts on the US Nissan LEAF forum, but I don't know how that measure is calculated, or why it is different to SOH?
Ah is the capacity of the battery pack. It varies between cars as no battery pack is 100% the same and each year the technology improves offering higher capacity in the same pack.
It's also the 'best case' figure when the battery is at optimum temperature (I've read this is around 20 Celsius for a 100% charge.
There are actually 96 'cells' in the pack each around 4.1 volts connected in series giving a total voltage of around 385 volts. Approx volts divide kwh = amp hours.
Over time the figure should reduce with wear but by how much is dependent on many factors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
If you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't be using the app.
Sorry @MK Tom but I have to disagree with that. It is a 5 second job to plug in the dongle. No specialist skills needed at all to install or to interpret the software. The software is easy to install on the phone and dead easy to connect to the dongle via Bluetooth.

I know loads of non-techie people that use LeafSpy. There are some interesting techie stuff on it sure, but you don't have to use it or even look at it. The only bits that really matter IMO are the GIDS and battery temperature readings. Setting it up takes less than 5 mins.

If anyone has problems just ask... you can always PM me if you don't want to put it on the forum and I can always call you and talk you through it.

I can't imagine that it is too technical for anyone.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top