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About bloody time too!

Too many people masquerading as electricians have been ignoring the regs for far too long, aided and abetted by one or two charge point manufacturers that both don't make it clear in the MIs what's required, and some actually recommend breaching the regs in the MIs, or provide unsuitable protection devices (Rolec, for example).

As mentioned in another thread, the requirement for open PEN fault protection has existed since forever, in effect, for any installation that includes expoxed conductive parts outdoors, but has been ignored by may charge point installers. Same goes for DC tolerant earth leakage protection, that was made mandatory, in effect, for any grant funded charge point installation from around the time that grants first became available (the grant was dependent on an IET guidance note being adhered to, IIRC).

Pisses me off, because the majority of electricians who are safe and diligent get undercut by the people that could not give a damn about compliance or safety. Perhaps this will start to level things up a bit. Really need to prosecute one or two of the cheap cowboys, though, to get the message across.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
About bloody time too!

Too many people masquerading as electricians have been ignoring the regs for far too long, aided and abetted by one or two charge point manufacturers that both don't make it clear in the MIs what's required, and some actually recommend breaching the regs in the MIs, or provide unsuitable protection devices (Rolec, for example).

As mentioned in another thread, the requirement for open PEN fault protection has existed since forever, in effect, for any installation that includes expoxed conductive parts outdoors, but has been ignored by may charge point installers. Same goes for DC tolerant earth leakage protection, that was made mandatory, in effect, for any grant funded charge point installation from around the time that grants first became available (the grant was dependent on an IET guidance note being adhered to, IIRC).

Pisses me off, because the majority of electricians who are safe and diligent get undercut by the people that could not give a damn about compliance or safety. Perhaps this will start to level things up a bit. Really need to prosecute one or two of the cheap cowboys, though, to get the message across.
Pisses me off too, I bet there’s some awful installations out there. It’s the same for all aspects of the industry, I love it when I take the cover off a consumer unit with an niceic sticker on to find an absolute mess of cables.
Part P is a mess too, I had my annual assessment a couple of weeks ago, you’re meant to state how many certs you’ve done in the last year as in eic, eicr and minor works.
One guy who my assessor was due to see told him he’d done 120 eic’s 300 eicr’s, blatantly doing drive by certificates no doubt.
 

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Don't get me started with a rant about the Part P cartels . . .

Drive by EICRs must have been done in their thousands when all the landlords were yelling to get them done before the deadline. Given that rented properties can be some of the worst, especially some HMOs, I can't help but believe this will come back and bite some people hard, if anyone ever audits some of this work.
 

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Pisses me off, because the majority of electricians who are safe and diligent get undercut by the people that could not give a damn about compliance or safety. Perhaps this will start to level things up a bit. Really need to prosecute one or two of the cheap cowboys, though, to get the message across.
I blame all the people on here who spend £30k on an EV, then are too cheap to pay for a proper EVSE installation.
 

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42k miles on public charging. Am I an expert yet?
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So instead of complaining about bad electricians, I'd be interested in some advice.

How am I supposed to find a good electrician? If I can't use NIC EIC as a mark of reliability, what am I supposed to look out for? You can't just sack an electrician once they've started the job. In a lot of cases you can't possibly know if an installer is good or bad before you choose them or get referred to them.

There are some things I'd like to get done to the electrics in my home - how am I supposed to find someone I can trust? Short of trawling YouTube for someone who does a good job on camera and seeing if they'll come to where I live!?
 

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42k miles on public charging. Am I an expert yet?
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I blame all the people on here who spend £30k on an EV, then are too cheap to pay for a proper EVSE installation.
How are you supposed to know whether you're paying for a "proper EVSE installation" or not?

Sure there are some who try and use the granny cable long term, but if you're buying an EVSE how are you supposed to know it'll be a proper installation before you go ahead with it?
 

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How are you supposed to know whether you're paying for a "proper EVSE installation" or not?

Sure there are some who try and use the granny cable long term, but if you're buying an EVSE how are you supposed to know it'll be a proper installation before you go ahead with it?
Because they search out the cheapest deal, not the guy that’s most credible or reliable.

Heck, some think £300 is too much after the grant.
 

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So instead of complaining about bad electricians, I'd be interested in some advice.

How am I supposed to find a good electrician? If I can't use NIC EIC as a mark of reliability, what am I supposed to look out for? You can't just sack an electrician once they've started the job. In a lot of cases you can't possibly know if an installer is good or bad before you choose them or get referred to them.

There are some things I'd like to get done to the electrics in my home - how am I supposed to find someone I can trust? Short of trawling YouTube for someone who does a good job on camera and seeing if they'll come to where I live!?
Ask the sparky for an itemised quote is one way of sorting out the good from the bad. Plus ask for a single line sketch for the installation.
 

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Chaps who rewired out kitchen and replaced the CU some years ago did a good job but turned up late, left early... held up the job, then tried to charge me £2k more than the itemised "estimate".

I've just had some work done at a place in Northern Ireland, where Part P doesn't apply, and.... not impressed. Had a commando socket installed and.... I think Jeremy would be horrified.

NIC EIC approved contractor and... well, it can't take much to get on that list. He did at least return my calls though... so you take what you can get.
 

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Because they search out the cheapest deal, not the guy that’s most credible or reliable.

Heck, some think £300 is too much after the grant.
Ridiculous, we tried four different “installers” in our area four years ago and despite all the glossy ads and trust a trader stuff none of them ever came back after our first enquiry….not even for a look after we sent all the pictures some required before visiting….shonkey electricians, what in the U.K.? :ROFLMAO:
 

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EVEZY code -£50 off: d409e
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Ill repost my olev install, just to show what some installers can do..

It was corrected (brand new metal CU, all circuits tested, new certs received and proper labelling/warning signs) by a different contractor from the same contracting company, who was 'surprised' that the 1st guy had done what he'd done.

The cooker was already cut out like that when I bought the repo'd house, so he didn't see an issue with doing the same for the EV.
148339
 

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So instead of complaining about bad electricians, I'd be interested in some advice.

How am I supposed to find a good electrician? If I can't use NIC EIC as a mark of reliability, what am I supposed to look out for? You can't just sack an electrician once they've started the job. In a lot of cases you can't possibly know if an installer is good or bad before you choose them or get referred to them.

There are some things I'd like to get done to the electrics in my home - how am I supposed to find someone I can trust? Short of trawling YouTube for someone who does a good job on camera and seeing if they'll come to where I live!?

All I can suggest is to try and get one recommended, ideally by someone trusted in another trade. The general rule of thumb is that good people, in any trade, rarely need to advertise, as they get enough work by recommendations. The exception to that are the new people starting out, some of whom can be very good indeed, but if they've yet to establish themselves they may not be on the radar locally. The best people I've used (any trade) have been those that have come via a recommendation, best of all by another trade. No competent person is going to risk their own reputation by recommending someone that works to lower standards than they do, as a general rule. The worst people I've used have been a couple of times when I've needed someone in a hurry and have had to resort to sites like "check a trade". There may be good people using those sites, but my experience hasn't been great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So instead of complaining about bad electricians, I'd be interested in some advice.

How am I supposed to find a good electrician? If I can't use NIC EIC as a mark of reliability, what am I supposed to look out for? You can't just sack an electrician once they've started the job. In a lot of cases you can't possibly know if an installer is good or bad before you choose them or get referred to them.

There are some things I'd like to get done to the electrics in my home - how am I supposed to find someone I can trust? Short of trawling YouTube for someone who does a good job on camera and seeing if they'll come to where I live!?
word of mouth! I think Jeremy just covered it, my dad never had to advertise. I use Facebook which is where I’m getting 90% of my work from and have a website but it’s much better for the client if they already feel they can rely on you.
As for an EV job, look for examples of their previous work. I tend to talk the job through with the client, explain things like spd protection. Ask your potential installer some questions and see if they seem knowledgeable.
Ask them if you need a double pole rcbo and if they say no then escort them from the premises!
 

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As for an EV job, look for examples of their previous work. I tend to talk the job through with the client, explain things like spd protection. Ask your potential installer some questions and see if they seem knowledgeable.
Ask them if you need a double pole rcbo and if they say no then escort them from the premises!
It’s great that you knowledgeable lot are sharing this info. I wouldn’t have a clue what to ask an electrician about a charge point installation. We’re soon to buy our first house, (in rented now and we can only use the granny charger), and will get a proper charge point fitted. Without knowing from people like you to ask about ‘double pole rcbo’ or open PEN fault protection, I’d just be going on a gut feeling of any quote for work. I’m going to search the internets now, but I don’t even know what an rcbo is, let alone one with double poles, and the idea of needing protection against a faulty open pen???
So yeah, thanks for sharing what you know (to all above).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It’s great that you knowledgeable lot are sharing this info. I wouldn’t have a clue what to ask an electrician about a charge point installation. We’re soon to buy our first house, (in rented now and we can only use the granny charger), and will get a proper charge point fitted. Without knowing from people like you to ask about ‘double pole rcbo’ or open PEN fault protection, I’d just be going on a gut feeling of any quote for work. I’m going to search the internets now, but I don’t even know what an rcbo is, let alone one with double poles, and the idea of needing protection against a faulty open pen???
So yeah, thanks for sharing what you know (to all above).
Well if you need advice just ask.
 

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Ask the sparky for an itemised quote is one way of sorting out the good from the bad. Plus ask for a single line sketch for the installation.
This makes no sense. I know a bit about EVs and have an EV. I have no idea what pen fault protection is or what it looks like on a diagram or what the requirements for an EV point install is. Without this forum I would not even know this is a thing. As with all things electrical I would defer to the electrician, we used our local guy who did the whole house electrics, no idea if he has done everything correctly I would just presume he has done everything safely and to regs. But I don't know this, or how to check this. This is why electricians earn the big money. They have to know the regs and keep everyone safe.
 

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This makes no sense. I know a bit about EVs and have an EV. I have no idea what pen fault protection is or what it looks like on a diagram or what the requirements for an EV point install is. Without this forum I would not even know this is a thing. As with all things electrical I would defer to the electrician, we used our local guy who did the whole house electrics, no idea if he has done everything correctly I would just presume he has done everything safely and to regs. But I don't know this, or how to check this. This is why electricians earn the big money. They have to know the regs and keep everyone safe.

The problem is that, whilst most electricians are properly qualified, understand the regs and know how to apply them, there are quite a few that don't do very good work, and a few that are so dangerous that it's a wonder they've lived as long as they have. Finding dodgy electrical installations is, sadly, something that is very common. Some of it is down to DIY'ers that don't know what they are doing, but some of it is down to people calling themselves electricians.

Take the mention of "drive by EICRs" mentioned above. We all know they have been going on over the past year, as landlords rushed to get places inspected and tested to comply with the law. We all know that a lot of those EICRs didn't involve any inspection or testing at all, the landlord just paid a (usually very cheap) price for a certificate to stay legal. An EICR takes time, often a lot of time if the installation is pretty typical and has a few common, but time consuming, things that really need to be fixed (things like broken ring finals, missing earths, etc).

Just read through this forum and non-compliant installations are featured very regularly. It's got to the point that some of us practically have boilerplate text to cut and paste in reply to highlight that an installation is non-compliant. That suggests that there are still a lot of installers around that either don't understand the requirements, or do not care, and just want to get the job done as quickly as possible, get their money and move on the next one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
This makes no sense. I know a bit about EVs and have an EV. I have no idea what pen fault protection is or what it looks like on a diagram or what the requirements for an EV point install is. Without this forum I would not even know this is a thing. As with all things electrical I would defer to the electrician, we used our local guy who did the whole house electrics, no idea if he has done everything correctly I would just presume he has done everything safely and to regs. But I don't know this, or how to check this. This is why electricians earn the big money. They have to know the regs and keep everyone safe.
how much is ‘big money’?
 
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