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Discussion Starter #1
now they not only saying their cars charge themselves, but Lexus even says their bog-standard hyb... I mean... "self charging" hybrid cars are powered from 2 SOURCES, fuel and electricity on their adverts.

Certainly can't do that either?
When will this "self-charging" bs end?

Even on LiveChat with toyota/lexus they push on the BS basically saying that the difference between a plug-in hybrid and a "self-charging" one is that the "self-charging" one DOESNT NEED to be plugged in, which is incorrect because the plugin hybrid DOESNT NEED it to be plugged in either. (The correct answer should be that you ARE ABLE TO PLUG the plugin, Not that the plugin MUST be plugged).

One live chat assistant, when challenged, even gone as far as saying the plugin one "doesnt self-charge" and if not plugged in runs on PETROL ONLY, while the "self-charging" will ALWAYS RUN ON ELECTRICITY AND PETROL without pluggin in. Basically denying that the plugin hybrids have any ability to regen/"charge themselves"

I think i should log these conversations and report them to the motor Ombudsman. Discuss?
 

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Better to alert the ASA to their misleading Adverts, but someone would need to decide on what the phrase "Self Charging" means.

John.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Better to alert the ASA to their misleading Adverts, but someone would need to decide on what the phrase "Self Charging" means.

John.
If they can paint the "self charging" is because it regens.. I can accept that.
But then you cant say that a self charging hybrid runs on electricity and petrol, and a plugin hybrids only runs on petrol if you dont plug it. This is wrong. If you apply regen as an excuse to call the "non plugin" as "self charging" and "runs on both electricity and petrol", then the plugin hybrid that never plugs in also has to be described as self charging and "runs on electricity and petrol" too.

You cant say that a nonplugin runs on electricity and that a plugin that never gets plugged "runs on petrol only" in the same sentence
 

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I'm pretty sure the advertising I've seen that they have in dealerships alongside the Prius PHEV actually explains how it's got all the benefits of the self charging traditional hybrids but then the bonus of maximising your electric only range by plugging in.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm pretty sure the advertising I've seen that they have in dealerships alongside the Prius PHEV actually explains how it's got all the benefits of the self charging traditional hybrids but then the bonus of maximising your electric only range by plugging in.
im talking about talking to salesmen via livechat or phone. They lie to you basically denying that PHEVs are able to "regen/self charge" and only charge if you plug them in, while a self charging one drives on electricity because "it charges itself". That's the kinda phrase/comparison many use that its misleading at best.
 

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im talking about talking to salesmen via livechat or phone. They lie to you basically denying that PHEVs are able to "regen/self charge" and only charge if you plug them in, while a self charging one drives on electricity because "it charges itself". That's the kinda phrase/comparison many use that its misleading at best.
I know what you're talking about. I just mean I wonder how they would try to justify it if you then pointed out their own adverts on one of their PHEV models after using that argument about their 'self charging' cars being better.
 

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The Kia niro (not the EV, nor the PHEV) is a "self charging hybrid" - it has a 2kwh battery, that is indeed charged by the car, and then can be driven solely on electric through town at slow speeds. There is no BS about this. I don't know the specs of the Lexus, but if it can do the same, then it is as well a "self charging hybrid". Why are people still getting upset about this ?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The Kia niro (not the EV, nor the PHEV) is a "self charging hybrid" - it has a 2kwh battery, that is indeed charged by the car, and then can be driven solely on electric through town at slow speeds. There is no BS about this. I don't know the specs of the Lexus, but if it can do the same, then it is as well a "self charging hybrid". Why are people still getting upset about this ?
Not upset about the term self charging. I'm upset about claiming the source of the cars power is electricity, and salesman selling self charging cars saying that plugin hybrids 'don't self charge", only the self charging ones
 

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My 2020 Ioniq ev is a "self charging" full electric car, because it recharges itself using regen! 😂🤣😂🤣 I do have to plug it in now and again of course, as do you need to put petrol in a hybrid! 😉 Is it time to call full EV's self charging, no petrol required?!!! 👍
 

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Ignore them all. Lexus/Toyota and their customers.

Any consumer who is adequately persuaded by this doesn't really want to know.

Surely every sensible buyer ask of themselves and the supplier of any product 'what do I need to put into this to keep it going, how much of that stuff do I need, and how much does it cost'.

If they don't do that, they are dumb. Can't fix dumb.

If they do do that, but not with electric cars then they really don't want an electric car, and would argue a reason for themselves not to have one even if you took the initiative and presented them the option. ("How much is the petrol?" ..."No petrol".. "What, none?"... "No engine, no petrol" .... I still routinely have conversations with people that seem dumbstrick that an EV doesn't need an engine in it")

If they do ask, do it with electric cars too, recognise that they are paying more for petrol and nothing for electricity, and still think that is better than a BEV, then maybe it is for them.

ASA have already received complaints and ruled in favour of Toyota. They say consumers understand what this means. Maybe most of them do.
 

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I really don’t take to idea that people with only brief knowledge of another type of propulsion systems can be let’s just say “Persuaded” into purchasing a car that has been subject to a very clever marketing strategy.
A clever manipulation of certain facts that purposely rely on the lack of people’s full understand of how it works ( or not ).
Is it directly misleading or just stretching the fact and figures ?.
I will let you decide on that one.
Let’s be honest with ourselves folks, it’s not be the first time the British car buying public have been directed down the wrong path !.
A number of years ago, we where actively encouraged to purchase oil burning cars and pay a premium price for the privilege from the dealers.
The government also supported this and then massively increasing the tax on the fuel they needed to burn.
One of my closest neighbours bought a Toyota self charging hybrid last year, at that time I had a VW plugin hybrid.
When talking about his new purchase, he had this to say.
“See, I don’t have to plug my car into the wall like you do, it does all the charging on its own. The salesman said we have moved on from having to plug them in anymore”.
THAT is the very thing that I object to !.
I did not have the heart to explain the limitations of his brand new purchase.
I don’t like the idea of sales people praying on the limited knowledge of a lot of the general public.
They believe they are “Doing their bit” by trying to offer a “Token Gesture” by buy into a new technology, but come foul of good marketing strategy in the process.
Self charging hybrid falls into that black hole of facts that are border line not directly true or false I guess.
What my Mum use to call a “A Little White Lie”.
 

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I know the Toyota/Lexus adverts are nauseating but I think they are selling their vehicles well simply because people are finding them attractive. Which is the way it usually is and why they are the highest volume manufacturer.
At some stage Toyota will have to switch to producing EVs and will probably do it with relative ease. They just don't seem under pressure to do so just yet.
 

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The marketing strategy will continue for as long as it is productive for the manufacturer. Probably works until someone else starts referring to BEVs as "self charging" electric cars, and PHEVs as "self charging" plug in hybrid electric cars, at which point it quickly loses any impact on consumers.
 

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I know the Toyota/Lexus adverts are nauseating but I think they are selling their vehicles well simply because people are finding them attractive. Which is the way it usually is and why they are the highest volume manufacturer.
At some stage Toyota will have to switch to producing EVs and will probably do it with relative ease. They just don't seem under pressure to do so just yet.
Your right !.
They are like other manufactures at the moment, trying to keep the sales of ICE going.
More profit in them !.
 

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Hardly a white lie. A white lie is to protect someone from the truth, because knowing the truth would be more harmful to them than not knowing.
Your probably right @Jeff G .
I was just trying to be a bit lenient with the truth, just like Toyota as it happens !.
Just to say, I don’t support their sales pitch in anyway, shape or form.
 

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These adverts are clearly misleading and it is not good enough to complain that people are being stupid for not understanding the difference. We don‘t (I hope) say people were stupid for buying financial products that didn’t suit them. Large parts of the population are confused about technology and there are several types of hybrid vehicles on offer.

What is needed are clearer categories and descriptions of hybrid vehicles and the manufacturing industry needs to standardise on proper descriptions. For example, how about “energy recovering” rather than “self generating”?
 

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What is needed are clearer categories and descriptions of hybrid vehicles and the manufacturing industry needs to standardise on proper descriptions. For example, how about “energy recovering” rather than “self generating”?
But then you are defeating the marketing lie these people are trying to get across, that having to plug in ( = having the ability to) is somehow inferior to, and older technology than, hybrids that run on petrol alone.
 
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