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Lidl fining for charging...

26K views 143 replies 52 participants last post by  DanPaul 
#1 ·
I used the rapid at Lidl Gipton the other day. Noticed that the Pod-Point app only had the opening hours of the store on it, although access to the charger is open, so it could be used 24/7.

I let Pod-Point know this to ask they update the info and they have replied to me saying that, although access is 24/7, Lidl are fining EV drivers who charge outside of store opening times and / or who fail to shop in the store whilst charging.

I was somewhat taken aback by this as there is no signage warning of potential fines, and what is the point of restricting a rapid which can be openly accessed when it might really help someone get home late at night. That seems very small-minded.

Replying to my response about lack of signage, Pod-Point told me one of their users has been fined over £200 for just using chargers and not shopping. I hope they've challenged that! Is it someone on here?

What are your thoughts on this? Once charging for charging comes in, I can't see any justification for fining EVers for using the infrastructure. It seems pretty short sited to me and will restrict a usefully expanding network.
 
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#7 ·
It's literally just waiting until the batteries are so big you won't need to charge anywhere but the motorway. That's how it will go.

Newcastle famously has hundreds of 7k chargers... unfortunately almost all of them are broken and have been for almost a year. It's just never going to happen this way.
 
#4 ·
Pod-Point told me one of their users has been fined over £200 for just using chargers and not shopping. I hope they've challenged that! Is it someone on here?

What are your thoughts on this?
Lidl are missing a trick in not making the chargers available out of hours but allowing Pod-Point to collect a fee during out of store hours. Perhaps there is a planning constraint on car park use outside store hours.
 
#13 ·
Completely unenforceable without the appropriate signage.
The POFA 2012 would give you protection for this. And £200 goes against BPA code of practice regarding parking charge notices.
 
#15 ·
Agreed, and if there is no signage then there can be no contract to breach.
Some of these leeches do attempt court and often win by default as they are not defended so just ignore is not always appropriate.
 
#16 ·
I did wonder if Pod-Point could try and negotiate a better deal for their users with Lidl. Over time, they will introduce charging for charging at their rapids and it then seems unconscionable that one should be fined for using a service you've paid for...
 
#19 · (Edited)
What is disappointing is that @planetpolitic gave no hint of this huge limitation on use in previous - and well received - comments about PodPoints involvement in this Lidl initiative. I would have thought that a heads up to us would have been appropriate.

In particular, the need to be actually buying at that visit is illogical. Someone could be a good and regular customer of Lidl - spending many hundreds over a year's shopping - but just wanted to pop in this time for a charge and find themselves in conflict. A great way for a business to lose loyal customers.
 
#62 ·
Ok - we need @planetpolitic ti confirm or deny this asap. I can see a PR blitz and other stuff on the way...
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What is disappointing is that @planetpolitic gave no hint of this huge limitation on use in previous - and well received - comments about PodPoints involvement in this Lidl initiative. I would have thought that a heads up to us would have been appropriate.

In particular, the need to be actually buying at that visit is illogical. Someone could be a good and regular customer of Lidl - spending many hundreds over a year's shopping - but just wanted to pop in this time for a charge and find themselves in conflict. A great way for a business to lose loyal customers.
Interesting that @planetpolitic has gone to ground on this. Also ignored my IM. This needs a lot of explaining and no reply was the stern answer.
Firstly, sorry for the delay in replying - I have been on holiday. Second - thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. As a driver first and foremost and project lead second, its never nice hearing these stories.

I queried this aspect in the other Lidl thread a couple of weeks ago here :
Lidl Stores EV Charging
It didn't get a response. If parking time is an issue surely it warranted one.

Either it's a Pod-Point and one's bound by Pod-Point's T&C or it's Lidl's and you're bound by theirs. This seems to be a worst of both scenario.

I charged at Gipton recently and had to wait for the charger to become free despite the fact it could charge two cars at once if that facility hadn't been disabled. It's verging on entrapment. Come into my parlour and we'll reward you with a massive 'fine'. (It isn't really a fine as it isn't a local authority car park.) I didn't even see sign about time restricted parking.

Here's a photo of the charger and car park. Can anyone see a sign to the effect there's a restriction in place?

View attachment 50393
I hadn't overstayed so no issue for me on that occasion. If I had had to wait for two cars to complete it probably would have been.

If the points are for store customers only, then do away with the Pod-Point app and claim the charge in store, perhaps with a token to use when convenient having spent, say, £5 or whatever is deemed appropriate. Tail wagging dog here, with neither knowing which is the tail and which is the dog!

@planetpolitic, please get this thought through and resolved.
How do they know if you've been shopping in Lidl, do you have to present your receipt to a camera on the charger, is there someone monitoring the CCTV to see if you go in the store, there is something very wrong with this story.

If Lidl are "fining" people for using the chargers out of hours then they are being a complete bunch of tw#ts, why is it that businesses suddenly see EV owners as cash cows as soon as they install a charger.

Anyway I'm switching my allegiance to Aldi now because they don't have chargers so are completely unaffected by this madness that seems to be afflicting those that do install them.

I have a vision of a bean counter suffering a complete meltdown when someone tries to explain that the chargers will be used by people who may not even buy anything or outside of normal opening hours, it must send them in a right spin.

Over to you to debunk these myths @planetpolitic
My understanding is that there are varying parking enforcement rules across the estate:

1. Time limit (90 minutes) restrictions
2. Validate parking in store (scan at tills)
3. Combo of above

It was also my understanding that there is signage at each location about the various parking restrictions. If you find this is not the case at any store, please message me directly. We agree that there could be clearer signage to drivers at the charge points about restrictions and are working with Lidl to improve this.

My goal is early September all stores with charging to have the signs (that we have designed) installed.

If you feel that you've been unfairly treated (by getting ticket during emergency/longer stop charge or signage not clear) contact Lidl or POD Points customer service teams. I imagine that getting a refunded parking fine will be difficult (as it always is) in this instance, contact me and I can see about getting you some free POD Point top up credit to compensate.

In regards to out of hours charging, I need to have this conversation with Lidl. What would you guys prefer?

1. Charge to use out of hours
2. Charger disabled if can't be used
3. Clearer direction from POD Point (via signage/app)
4. Anything else?

It is important we get this right and as always I will pass on your comments to Lidl directly.
 
#21 ·
Lidl car parks normally have big signs about usage and fees. They seem to be simply assuming that charging=shopping and the max time still applies in the car park, charging or not. It's not very helpful, but they are providing chargers for their customers, not as a public service.
 
#22 ·
Is up to Lidl/Podpoint to get their house in order. If the charger is only for customers then they need to make that clear by way of notices or restricting access.

Many supermarkets that are not 24/7 also now provide 24hr access to unmanned petrol station pumps.

I think Lidl are being too commercial about it. They just be looking at it as a green initiative to increase their green credentials, and if they get some in store business from it, that's a nice bonus.
 
#23 ·
I think the main point needs reiterating. The title is "Lidl fining for charging".
If there is no signage stating restrictions they simply can not issue a PCN with any legal standing.

If it went to court the judge would probably use the line to their representative "next time you appear in front of me, bring your toothbrush". This is a famous line actually used in a private parking case.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I queried this aspect in the other Lidl thread a couple of weeks ago here :
Lidl Stores EV Charging
It didn't get a response. If parking time is an issue surely it warranted one.

Either it's a Pod-Point and one's bound by Pod-Point's T&C or it's Lidl's and you're bound by theirs. This seems to be a worst of both scenario.

I charged at Gipton recently and had to wait for the charger to become free despite the fact it could charge two cars at once if that facility hadn't been disabled. It's verging on entrapment. Come into my parlour and we'll reward you with a massive 'fine'. (It isn't really a fine as it isn't a local authority car park.) I didn't even see sign about time restricted parking.

Here's a photo of the charger and car park. Can anyone see a sign to the effect there's a restriction in place?

Transport Urban area Sky Vehicle Public space

I hadn't overstayed so no issue for me on that occasion. If I had had to wait for two cars to complete it probably would have been.

If the points are for store customers only, then do away with the Pod-Point app and claim the charge in store, perhaps with a token to use when convenient having spent, say, £5 or whatever is deemed appropriate. Tail wagging dog here, with neither knowing which is the tail and which is the dog!

@planetpolitic, please get this thought through and resolved.
 
#32 ·
Can anyone see a sign to the effect there's a restriction in place?
These carparks have huge signs on the way in saying ANPR in use and the tariff the same way motorway services do, they are absolutely enforceable, you are on LIDL's land not Pod-Points so are bound by the terms of the car park.

Simple and very little ambiguity IMHO.

Do Lidl in Scotland come under the same management team as England?
As it has nothing to do with management and everything to do with common law in Scotland vs the rest of the UK, changing management structure is unlikely to help.
 
#28 ·
In England and none by any of my local Lidls. Of four probably more.
 
#29 ·
Do Lidl in Scotland come under the same management team as England? If not they may need to get their own agreement with Lidl's head office to install them and someone in Scotland needs to approach them to arrange it. They may not have considered it! If you don't ask!!...
 
#34 ·
If the planning permission wasn't obtained for the signs then you absolutely aren't bound by the terms at all. Quite a few parking operators have been putting signs without the requisite planning permissions. None of which can be back dated.

Also if you use the car park then someone else uses your car the same day you will be fined due to the double dipping problem. That's hardly fair is it?
 
#35 ·
If the planning permission wasn't obtained for the signs then you absolutely aren't bound by the terms at all. Quite a few parking operators have been putting signs without the requisite planning permissions. None of which can be back dated.

Also if you use the car park then someone else uses your car the same day you will be fined due to the double dipping problem. That's hardly fair is it?
If the planning permission wasn't obtained for the signs then you absolutely aren't bound by the terms at all. Quite a few parking operators have been putting signs without the requisite planning permissions. None of which can be back dated.

Also if you use the car park then someone else uses your car the same day you will be fined due to the double dipping problem. That's hardly fair is it?
 
#42 · (Edited)
My understanding is that 'penalty notices' issued on private property are not fines that are enforceable like local authority ones. I'm told that they fall into a kind of claim for breach of contract that has caused loss. And that the notice has the same status as an invoice seeking payment for a service alleged to have been provided. The claim is that the terms and conditions of parking were posted clearly and you accept them by parking there. To obtain payment if the notice is ignored the only recourse by the land owner is to take legal action demanding payment. There are many instances recorded that they don't do that - especially if it could cause a lot of adverse publicity for the owner of the business.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this (and it does seem wrong to me), I usually try and avoid parking anywhere restrictions are in place, be it a supermarket, LA pay & display bay or car park. I don't trust any of these cowboys. If they can find a reason you've done something wrong, they'll try it on.
I look out for these:
 
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