[Philip Eolas]

I am currently about to purchase a new vehicle. I would love to go for a hybrid with charging capability but I reckon the differential would be about £8000.

However, I am very apprehensive that if I go for a petrol vehicle then I ight find that the Governement announces an incentive scheme with a month of so (that is knid of the way things can break).

What are the views as to when a scheme may be introduced?


Philip

🤓

 

[WithEthyl]

Nobody knows whether there will be one yet, a lot of the initial reports were more about the car industry lobby groups speaking with government to push for one, then there was talk that the government was planning something for Hybrids and EVs, with a Government announcement in early July as part of a package to kick-start the economy, but reports last week suggested the government was going cold on the idea of a scrappage scheme and there may not be one at all.

Trouble is there's something a contradiction to solve - any scheme would be launched with the aim to boost the UK economy and manufacturing, which means boost sales of the cars we make in the UK. But most of the UK car manufacturers are making models with ICE, but the environmental dimension makes a general scrappage scheme to support sales of new diesel and petrol cars politically and environmentally difficult. But a scheme targeting just EVs, or EVs and PHEVs wouldn't boost the domestic manufacturers much so kinds of defeats the point of it.

 

[pilotwoo]

I think it's unlikely, and its a bad idea.

 

[andyswarbs]

After trashing our old car - a juke - we started looking at going electric and initially thought hybrid was the way to go. Thankfully I saw the light and so pleased to have not wasted my money on what I now consider a half-baked ev.

None of the advantages of a full petrol, and none of the advantages of a full ev - that's my view of hybrids. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Philip Eolas]

So the essence here is that any scheme would be driven by an economic, rather than an environmental, imperative?

Philip

 

[Neilew]

So the essence here is that any scheme would be driven by an economic, rather than an environmental, imperative?

Philip

Not essentially. In the current situation economy has to be a major driver, but the green element should have a heavy weighting in the argument. We excel at producing electric cars in this country. We now need to encourage more of the other players to come here and make electric (non-hybrid) as well. Isn't Tesla in talks for a mega-factory here. What if MG didn't have to ship it's cars half way round the world to export to Europe. We are in the right place, with the necessary skills and drive to take that opportunity.

 

[dk6780]

We excel at producing electric cars in this country.

How do you conclude that? We series produce an out of date Japanese design in the LEAF, and a bodge of the out of date i3 drive train in the ICE bodyshell of a Mini. Apart from that we sell the Jaguar i-Pace that's made by a contractor in Austria, and a badge engineered former GM design made in Spain. Most EVs sold in this country are made abroad, particularly in France, the USA and South Korea, and soon to be Germany.
Why should we subsidise the foreign manufacturers?
The biggest barrier to significant increases in EV ownership remains the appalling lack of infrastructure, particularly for those without off-street parking. Spending on that benefits the economy immediately with the work on the grid capacity, installation and the units themselves - the first two by definition in the UK, the latter potentially. All EV owners also benefit as it will increase resale values rather than decreasing them as a new price reduction does.

 

[Neilew]

Why should we subsidise the foreign manufacturers?

Jobs. The incentive scheme is designed to help rejuvenate the economy. There are going to be a lot, and I mean a Lot, of business going bust. We are about to enter the worst recession since the 1930s. Anything we do to promote industrial growth should be investigated. I've been through a few recessions in my lifetime and none were pleasant. Hold on to your hat. We're in for a bumpy ride.

 

[modeller]

How do you conclude that? We series produce an out of date Japanese design in the LEAF, and a bodge of the out of date i3 drive train in the ICE bodyshell of a Mini. Apart from that we sell the Jaguar i-Pace that's made by a contractor in Austria, and a badge engineered former GM design made in Spain. Most EVs sold in this country are made abroad, particularly in France, the USA and South Korea, and soon to be Germany.
Why should we subsidise the foreign manufacturers?

JLR now offer 4 different PHEVs which are built in the UK. The R&D for the i-Pace was done in Cov and the profit is funding a few new BEV's in the wings. You may diss the Leaf but it's still selling well. The mini-e is a blast to drive and the drive train is world class (battery could be a little bigger however!).
I agree that any investment should be made in green infrastructure and not vehicles.

 

[First Draft]

So the essence here is that any scheme would be driven by an economic, rather than an environmental, imperative?

Philip

Tory Government populated by dead eyed Britannia Unchained types, led by an absentee Prime Minister who appears utterly in thrall to an unelected bureaucrat who stares back out of the dictionary next to the definition of Grand Vizier, all apparently obsessed with a No Deal Brexit to a degree of monomania that Captain Ahab would think they're overdoing it?

I'm sure the Green Blob is right at the top of their list.

 

[Philip Eolas]

This has been very enlightening...................... not to mention quite fun.

So should I buy a brinad new petrol vehicle now or hold on for a few more months to see whether an incentive scheme emerges?


Philip

 

[Neilew]

This has been very enlightening...................... not to mention quite fun.

So should I buy a brinad new petrol vehicle now or hold on for a few more months to see whether an incentive scheme emerges?


Philip

Definitely hang on. As the situation deepens there will be deals and incentives to shift existing stock.

 

[proddick]

This has been very enlightening...................... not to mention quite fun.

So should I buy a brinad new petrol vehicle now or hold on for a few more months to see whether an incentive scheme emerges?


Philip

The latest reports are that government funded scrappage is unlikely - see link below. This isn't a financial crisis and credit is still cheap and easy to obtain. The manufacturers can easily stimulate demand by doing deals, which many are already doing with 3 months no payment, zero percent interest and job loss protection. Many manufacturers are also offering their own scrappage discounts, such as £3K off a Hyundai PHEV.

You also need to be careful just looking at the purchase cost as residuals on petrol cars may suffer once EVs are more normalised. You can mitigate this by getting a good PCP or PCH deal, but if you compare like-for-like specification and factor in other monthly costs, there are some comparable EV deals around - example on very high spec e2008 below. Many of the better EV deals (probably due to cancelled orders) have gone and those remaining probably won't last long. There may be some deals in Q3 if manufacturers aren't on target for EU emissions, but with company and salary sacrifice demand, I am not confident.

Report: new UK scrappage scheme 'unlikely', say ministers | Autocar

Report suggests the government is reconsidering plans to offer buyers incentives for buying new cars

www.autocar.co.uk

Hyundai | 2020 Car Scrappage Scheme | Save up to £4,000 on a new car

You could save up to £4,000 off with the Hyundai Car Scrappage scheme. We're taking older, less efficient cars off the road while making your new car even more affordable.

mobile.hyundai.co.uk

 

[andyswarbs]

This has been very enlightening...................... not to mention quite fun.

So should I buy a brinad new petrol vehicle now or hold on for a few more months to see whether an incentive scheme emerges?


Philip

Predicting the future... When we bough the Kona, being a high mileage car, I thought to myself it has as good or better longevity and price-keeping possibility of any EV. One reason we went for the Kona was a 4 month wait for delivery, which then reduced to 3 months. Lockdown apart, with the new czech republic factory coming on stream new deliveries will not be shipped from S.Korea any more.

But above all it was about saying goodbye to fossil fuel. My wife was more intent than I was about the need to ditch fossil fuels at a personal level where possible. So at the very least a joint decision. Even if the decision costs us some money we see it as an investment in a cleaner future.

 

[EdH]

I hope it is not likely. There are ways that any funds for supporting the economy could be spread more widely and in a fairer way. Not sure what, but I would be happy to leave that to government and economists.

 

[Brian G]

The govt would get more bangs for its buck looking at insulation of older properties both in terms of jobs created and CO2 savings in the longer term. Interestingly electricity is taxed for its CO2 content but domestic gas isn’t. That needs to change to create a willingness to insulate and move to heat pumps. At the same time wind generation needs to be boosted with a wider spread of offshore wind farms which will become possible with floating turbines as that technology develops and it is advancing quickly now. Excess electricity can be turned into hydrogen for industrial use and heavy transport.

 

[WithEthyl]

The govt would get more bangs for its buck looking at insulation of older properties both in terms of jobs created and CO2 savings in the longer term.

It would also get more bang for buck if it started supporting roof-top solar installations again.

Typically a 1kW solar installation yields around 850kWh/year, so a standard 3.6kW installation yields around 3000kWh each year. It displaces gas generation (CCGT) at around 400g/kWh, so saves roughly 3000 * 0.4 = 1,200kg of CO2 each year.

Typical new car emits around 120g CO2/km, so 192g/mile.Average mileage is only around 7000 miles per year, so 1,344kg CO2 per year.

Pound per kg, they're probably a better saving than EVs and they do work rather well together.

 

[dk6780]

JLR now offer 4 different PHEVs which are built in the UK. The R&D for the i-Pace was done in Cov and the profit is funding a few new BEV's in the wings. You may diss the Leaf but it's still selling well. The mini-e is a blast to drive and the drive train is world class (battery could be a little bigger however!).
I agree that any investment should be made in green infrastructure and not vehicles.

I was deliberately being harsh, but JLR are in completely the wrong markets to count as green. Their PHEVs will rarely be plugged-in and are just for greenwashing. They have never made money with "medium sized" cars, and Tesla have already got the market sewn up with the M3 and MY.

 

[TVEV]

...JLR ... They have never made money with "medium sized" cars, and Tesla have already got the market sewn up with the M3 and MY.

Have they ever made 'medium-sized' cars? I suppose the E-Pace is the closest currently, but it doesn't really compare to anything Tesla make.

They don't really market themselves in the 'medium-sized' car marketplace to any great extent. I'm sure most people would think of Jaguar as trying to portray themselves as a larger car premium brand. Whether they have achieved that is debatable.

I think JLR should make some smaller and cheaper cars. It didn't damage the Mercedes brand when they started making smaller, more affordable cars, as well as high-end models within the Mercedes brand.

 

[First Draft]

I was deliberately being harsh, but JLR are in completely the wrong markets to count as green. Their PHEVs will rarely be plugged-in and are just for greenwashing. They have never made money with "medium sized" cars, and Tesla have already got the market sewn up with the M3 and MY.

They're taking a pounding and now shedding 1,100 jobs in the UK (contract-agency).

Ouch