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With the ICE car ban being brought forward yesterday I saw quite a few of the anti-EV lobby arguing that it's ridiculous because the world will either "run out of" or not be able to "supply enough / quickly enough" the raw materials required for everyone to drive EVs. Does anyone here have any good sources for actual facts on this and what the predictions are on the world's supply of lithium, cobalt and nickel especially? Would be useful when arguing the case for EVs :)
 

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Lithium is an extremely abundant element. Cobalt content is rapidly reducing or can be avoided completelly.
Someone else can advise re nickel but keep in mind that oil and gas production uses huge quantities of nickel containing alloys.
 

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I saw quite a few of the anti-EV lobby arguing that it's ridiculous because the world will either "run out of"
Not so long ago the same arguments were being used about running out of oil. They always assume that we live in a static system where nothing changes. Similar ideas are common in economics and other areas.
But they are wrong - things change, they always have, they always will.

So it's a non-argument which really isn't worth getting involved in. (And bear in mind that these people have made their minds up and you can argue till the cows have been replaced by soya and not change them.)
 

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(And bear in mind that these people have made their minds up and you can argue till the cows have been replaced by soya and not change them.)
Its funny how we all think convincing folk to go EV is a struggle because the big one is going to be getting them away from meat!! Its surely coming but its going to be met by much stronger resistance than getting an EV. I am not a vegatarian but eat very little meat, but the arguments I have heard about not eating meat have been much more vocal.
 

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Anyone who has been around as long as I have has heard all this before about "Insert commodity here". You name it, oil, rare earths, cobalt, manganese. The fact is that "Reserves" are what already been explored and accounted for at least roughly. Reserves do not include stuff we have not yet explored for and there is nearly always more than we now think.

Anyway, if someone could show the criteria by which oil can be defined as a "sustainable resource" then I might change my mind about the need to phase out fossil fuels. Oh wait, global warming, silly me, forgot about that!
 

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Lithium is an extremely abundant element. Cobalt content is rapidly reducing or can be avoided completelly.
Someone else can advise re nickel but keep in mind that oil and gas production uses huge quantities of nickel containing alloys.
Fairly new information to me, but apparently Cobalt is used in the desulphation process for petrol refining:


Cobalt plays a vital role in catalysing the removal of sulphur from oil, contributing to a more sustainable society.

The use of cobalt in desulphurisation reactions represents the highest tonnage of cobalt use in the catalyst sector.
Oh the children! ;)
 

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The statistics on the effects on the climate are much clearer. The environmental benefits of EVs are somewhat debatable.
No, they arent. No debate needed.
Thats just an extreme version of what we all are breathing in every day leading to huge numbers of premature deaths, asthma etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Anyway, if someone could show the criteria by which oil can be defined as a "sustainable resource" then I might change my mind about the need to phase out fossil fuels. Oh wait, global warming, silly me, forgot about that!
This is why I asked the question in the first place though. The person in question couldn’t care less about climate change and is using resource scarcity as the argument against EVs (well that and the boring old range anxiety!). So that was why I simply wanted some facts because he was suggesting we would run out...
 

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This is why I asked the question in the first place though. The person in question couldn’t care less about climate change and is using resource scarcity as the argument against EVs (well that and the boring old range anxiety!). So that was why I simply wanted some facts because he was suggesting we would run out...
Yeh, the second resort of the anti EV brigade, after they realise they are losing the range/speed argument is "well its not green anyway" and they suddenly all become greenies and worried about CO2 of coal fired power stations to fuel cars and congo mining.
2-18-Health-Wellness-Square.jpg
Not helped by a focus on CO2 re cars when its hard to argue with that as being indifferent to health
 

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If it helps, both the lithium and cobalt prices have plummeted and Glencore are probably shuttering (or maybe even have shuttered) a big mine in the DRC. Not the typical evidence you‘d associate with a supply issue.
 

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Here's the official UK government line:

The production of lithium-ion batteries, currently the most common type used for electric vehicles (EVs), necessitates the use of lithium. A substantial increase in lithium production will be required to meet the needs of a growing battery market. However, based on current rates of production, geological availability is not considered to be an issue and so supply constraints are unlikely to be long term. Similarly, studies have indicated that current reserves of rare earth metals are sufficient so that increased production of electric vehicles will not be affected. Despite their name, ‘rare’ earth metals are often not in fact very scarce; rather, they occur in low and dispersed concentrations. The government is aware of social, environmental and supply concerns surrounding the mining of rare earth metals. We will work with industry and international partners on how best to address these concerns. Replacement or reduction may help avoid such issues. This is also a priority for vehicle manufacturers. AC induction motors, for instance, are constructed without rare earth metals and have been successfully implemented in electric vehicles by some manufacturers. Another example is the steps BMW are taking to increase the transparency of its cobalt supply chain, as well as exploring how to improve the social and ecological impact of mining.

Here is the link
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here's the official UK government line:

The production of lithium-ion batteries, currently the most common type used for electric vehicles (EVs), necessitates the use of lithium. A substantial increase in lithium production will be required to meet the needs of a growing battery market. However, based on current rates of production, geological availability is not considered to be an issue and so supply constraints are unlikely to be long term. Similarly, studies have indicated that current reserves of rare earth metals are sufficient so that increased production of electric vehicles will not be affected. Despite their name, ‘rare’ earth metals are often not in fact very scarce; rather, they occur in low and dispersed concentrations. The government is aware of social, environmental and supply concerns surrounding the mining of rare earth metals. We will work with industry and international partners on how best to address these concerns. Replacement or reduction may help avoid such issues. This is also a priority for vehicle manufacturers. AC induction motors, for instance, are constructed without rare earth metals and have been successfully implemented in electric vehicles by some manufacturers. Another example is the steps BMW are taking to increase the transparency of its cobalt supply chain, as well as exploring how to improve the social and ecological impact of mining.

Here is the link
Excellent, thanks!
 

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Probably something only found in African children. Just Sayin.
Mom: If anyone ever got a hold of anchovy DNA, they could chop out the oil-making gene, stick it in a bunch of Third-World kids and bam! Cheap effective robot oil. Enough to put dear, old Mom out of business.
Walt: My God! This Mr. Fry must be a mastermind of the highest order.
 
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