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Discussion Starter #1
Have already posted this in the Renault Zoe forum where there is a discussion between the 2 charging speed models but figured it's interesting from a general EV perspective too.

If doing a long journey, is range or charge speed more important (if you can only pick one)?

Well, let's let CNet Roadshow find out:

 

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Well,that`s 11:22 minutes of my life i wont get back.

Just wondering about reporting this as a spam post.

I wont be waiting for part 2 thanks.

No offence intended and all that.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well,that`s 11:22 minutes of my life i wont get back.
Just wondering about reporting this as a spam post.
I have no commercial interest in this so it's not spam. I found it interesting but each to their own.

Depends entirely on charging infrastructure. If you can drive 2 hours and fully charge in 15 mins then I'd be happy.
That's what I'm learning from this too. My BEV hasn't arrived yet but I am hoping my experience in the UK should be much better!

I do think they should have carried the cards for the public charging before setting off the journey (failure to prepare is preparing to fail ;)) and getting lost is pretty unforgivable.
 

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"im not going to lose to those suckers"
...
"while i have a chargepoint account...I dont have the card with me"
"hmm"

Yeah hmm indead!
 

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Lost me pretty early too. Interesting idea. Poor choice of vehicles.

I see where they're going with it, but the real test is something like a 350 mile EV with 100kW charging vs a 150 mile EV with 350kW charging. Not a 100kW capable vehicle vs one that's forced to use 7kW charging.

Plus, it's all a bit over the top. Standard yank over enthusiasm.
 

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For me faster charging, as long as it can be used to its potential, is much more useful than a longer initial range. Lighter car, lower original (and replacement) cost, less space taken up by batteries. If I can do 200 miles and fill up in 15 mins then I'd be pretty happy.
 

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For me faster charging, as long as it can be used to its potential, is much more useful than a longer initial range. Lighter car, lower original (and replacement) cost, less space taken up by batteries. If I can do 200 miles and fill up in 15 mins then I'd be pretty happy.
I agree. Which is why that 'sweet spot' of 200 mile range keeps cropping up. But the range needs to be at least that even if a re-charge is very rapid. Nobody wants to have to visit a charge point every hour on a long trip even if only for a few minutes. Present cars are primarily commute vehicles with the ability to travel out of range if you can put up with all the hassle involved.

To increase the range to 300 miles and beyond will involve a lot more expense using present level tech. And is hard to justify when the majority of drivers can actually manage with 100 mile range for almost all of their journeys.
 

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I agree. Which is why that 'sweet spot' of 200 mile range keeps cropping up. But the range needs to be at least that even if a re-charge is very rapid. Nobody wants to have to visit a charge point every hour on a long trip even if only for a few minutes. Present cars are primarily commute vehicles with the ability to travel out of range if you can put up with all the hassle involved.
Whilst I agree with the 200 mile 'sweet spot' I do wonder what roads there are in the UK on which you need to recharge every hour with that range?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Its also a bit stupid, as almost all BEV's have rapid charge capability, and the larger battery cars usually charge a bit faster too.
With the Renault Zoe you can choose between the R90 which charges at a max 22KWh and the Q90 which charges at a max of 43KWh.. which gets interesting when I tell you there's a £750 price difference between them and you lose 10 miles of range opting for the Q model.

I agree. Which is why that 'sweet spot' of 200 mile range keeps cropping up.
I think we will transition into "how infrequently I need to plug in". We always used to love having a phone that could last a week without a charge :)
 

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Whilst I agree with the 200 mile 'sweet spot' I do wonder what roads there are in the UK on which you need to recharge every hour with that range?
I said 'at least' 200 miles because any less than that, like at present, needs a stop every hour - and we don't want that.
 

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I think we will transition into "how infrequently I need to plug in". We always used to love having a phone that could last a week without a charge .
You can do that now if you have deep pockets. A Tesla used for a daily commute of 30 miles would last a fortnight. But the balance is about affordability and convenience.
 

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200 miles of motorway at 50-60 is my perfect car mileage wise. Equivilant of half a tank of fuel as I fill mine up half way each time
 

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Clearly, you don't have a partner like mine! A stop every 1.5 hours is mandatory for coffee and a toilet break. This nicely fits the Zoe where 23 minutes on a rapid takes it to 90% or more. Happy with the car she is!
 

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Range lets you charge while you can still get to "plan b" and "plan c", so until chargers are a lot more dependable and in large clusters, I think enough range is needed to drive for 2hr, and still be able to get to at least 3 chargers.
 

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Range lets you charge while you can still get to "plan b" and "plan c", so until chargers are a lot more dependable and in large clusters, I think enough range is needed to drive for 2hr, and still be able to get to at least 3 chargers.
Yes. And as long trips tend to use motorways that effectively means a range of 150 motorway miles plus a margin to cover such contingencies. Which is probably why the figure of 200 miles range crops up so often.

But to take the pressure off longer trips it also needs the ability to regain at least 150 mile range rapidly. Again, the desired time of 15 minutes to do that is a common theme.

So a range of 200 miles coupled with a Rapid charge of 15 minutes before battery charge speed tails off seems to be the most requested configuration.
 

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I have a 200 mile EV which can also charge at >90kW at a Supercharger. But if I know I can definitely charge at my destination (e.g. When visiting my mum who lives 180miles away) then why would I bother stopping to charge at a SC on the way ? I just drive straight there and then let the car charge while I'm doing something else more interesting.

If you HAVE to charge, then faster is obviously better, but not even having to stop to charge is the fastest of all.
 

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So a range of 200 miles coupled with a Rapid charge of 15 minutes before battery charge speed tails off seems to be the most requested configuration.
So the charger need to be able to put in an additional 150 mile of range in 15 minutes into a car that arrived with 50 miles of range. (Personally I would be happy with 30 minutes.)
 

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One of the pluses of an ICE is that you can make the unplanned journeys without range anxiety. For example elderly parent is suddenly taken ill on the far side of the country scenario.

Suppose your EV does 200 miles and you charge it once a week normally for 60 minutes on a rapid. If you suddenly need to make this long journey when the car happens to be nearly empty then you have to wait an hour to charge up as opposed to 5 minutes to refill an ICE. Thus for me you want not only a reliable 2 hours on the motorway driving range but also a fill up in less than 15 minutes. You may not factor this into your buying decision because it is not part of your normal usage pattern but it is what an ice offers and you only need to be caught out once to realise what a deal breaker it is.

Our real life example was one evening, leaf was half full (about 45 miles) and we had to take DD to out of hours doctor and then on to A&E which is about 18 miles form home. Having got there we had enough juice to get home but not for a quick trip home to pick up some stuff/swap parents and then head straight back again. We would have wanted good access to a 24 hour fast charger with +50 miles of range in 5 mins somewhere on our route not just t the nearest motorway service area.
 
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