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Discussion Starter #1
With the COVID situation as it is, it looks like I'm going to be working from home for the foreseeable future (or at least for the majority of the time!). Given that obviously means my mileage will be dropping significantly, the £250+/month fuel savings are no longer there, and I'm finding it hard to justify continuing to pay £350+/month on a car which is going to be sitting on the drive, making the place look pretty, but doing very little actual driving.

Sadly, that means after a short, but sweet 18 months, I'm looking to sell the Zoe, pay off the finance, and go back to bangernomics - e.g. a 10+ year old ICE (eugh...)

R110 i Dynamique in Titanium Grey
Registered January 2019 (68 plate)
15.6k miles

Serviced by Renault main dealer in January at 11k

Includes heated seats, reversing camera and Bose sound system.
I've also installed the front arm rest and boot floor storage.
Also have an aftermarket granny charger, a second 32 amp 3 phase type 2 cable, and a set of roof bars which could be included.

Some (very tiny) stone chips to the bonnet (only really noticeable if you're looking for them), and a small patch of kerbing to the front passenger rim. Otherwise in excellent condition inside and out.

Had some (what appear to be) decent estimates from online services (so far the best is ~£15.5k), but wondering if I'm likely to get anything better selling privately?
 

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2020 Corsa E
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It might be worth checking out low rate APR deals on newer EVs to see whether you could trade yours in, get something else and pay less per month at the same time.

What will you net after the finance is paid off? Can you get a much lower rate and pay less per month and keep the car?

Is it worth selling it and then considering leasing a cheap EV from Drive Electric? They've got a few cars around the lower £200s per month.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm on the 0% rate from RCI, so not going to get better than that! The net after finance is paid off will be <£1k, so hardly worth taking into consideration. I have been looking at leases, but to be honest, if I we were to require another car, the best option would most likely be to get something through my work's salary sacrifice scheme, and take advantage of the 0% BIK.

Looking at what has been discussed at work so far, my mileage is potentially dropping from the ~15k it was previously to ~6k. My partner "drives"* a 2008 Fiesta, which does ~35-40mpg, so that works out around £70-80/month, even adding on another £100/month for maintenance is still well shy of what it would cost to lease another vehicle - I'd rather just stick the extra money in the bank to be honest!

I guess another possible option would be a 22kw Zoe or 30kw Leaf - but they would be even less suitable for the longer journeys we do. Something I'll go take a look at now though.

To be honest, there is another factor which is swinging my decision to get ride of the Zoe, and that's the charging capabilities. It looks like AC rapid (and even fast!) charging is on the way out. Whilst obviously I can only charge at 22kw, when companies such as Ionity and even Ecotricity are starting to skip AC compatibility, it does seem like a bit of a death sentence for the Zoe being used as a main car.

* I say "drives" because she hasn't actually passed her test yet, so her car is barely used as it is.
 

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30kWh Leaf is Type 1 and chademo so you've got 2 near obsolete connectors for the price of one ;) The Q rapid 22 kWh Zoe might be fun as you can at least do a stint, take 30 minutes to charge to full and do another and repeat until bored witless. Polar and Shell Recharge still have full speed AC on all their chargers so I think you would have a couple of years.

Salary sacrifice will be cheapest of all for a replacement EV probably.

I'd ask @Badger in Black for a valuation as he buys for a big Renault dealer and quite often buys in Zoes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
30kWh Leaf is Type 1 and chademo so you've got 2 near obsolete connectors for the price of one ;) The Q rapid 22 kWh Zoe might be fun as you can at least do a stint, take 30 minutes to charge to full and do another and repeat until bored witless. Polar and Shell Recharge still have full speed AC on all their chargers so I think you would have a couple of years.

Salary sacrifice will be cheapest of all for a replacement EV probably.

I'd ask @Badger in Black for a valuation as he buys for a big Renault dealer and quite often buys in Zoes.
The old Leaf/Zoe would be used purely for commuting (if there was any) and local(ish) journeys within range - anything longer distance would be back to the ICE. Would require some careful maths to establish whether it was worth doing!!
 

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But the car isn't actually costing you £350/month, that's just what you are paying to own it. The car has only 'cost' you the difference between what you paid for it, and the £15,500 you've been offered trade (Might be able to get around £1,000-£1,500 more if sold privately). You don't have any interest on the finance, so the only other costs are maintenance, servicing and electricity.

If you add that altogether, what has been your total cost of ownership per month based on doing 15,000miles? I suspect it's dramatically lower than any lease with similar mileage, and probably even lower than a 10year old banger when you account for deprecation, VED, fuel and maintenance.....

I also barely drive anymore, but my Zoe is paid for and the fact I'm not doing any mileage just means it's not dropping in value at all. I could sell it and get ~£14,000 back in my pocket, but what for? I wouldn't be able to replace it with anything much cheaper if I did need a car again and I don't need the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
But the car isn't actually costing you £350/month, that's just what you are paying to own it. The car has only 'cost' you the difference between what you paid for it, and the £15,500 you've been offered trade (Might be able to get around £1,000-£1,500 more if sold privately). You don't have any interest on the finance, so the only other costs are maintenance, servicing and electricity.

If you add that altogether, what has been your total cost of ownership per month based on doing 15,000miles? I suspect it's dramatically lower than any lease with similar mileage, and probably even lower than a 10year old banger when you account for deprecation, VED, fuel and maintenance.....
Oh, I absolutely get that, and yes, the TCO based on doing 15k is great:

12x £350 + ~£20/month electricity + £95 service= £~4.5k
vs the Fiesta ~£200 petrol + £15 VED + £50/maintenance / month + ~£50 for a DIY service = ~£3.2k

What's the Zoe going to be worth in another 3 years, £8-10k? So after 5 years,
TCO Zoe = (£4.5k x 5) + £600 for 2 years warranty - £10k = £13.1k
TCO Fiesta = (£3.2k x 5) ~£16k

Yup, the Zoe wins that one.

Looking at 6k miles however:
12x £350 + ~£7/month electricity + £95 service = £~4.3k
vs the Fiesta ~£75 petrol + £15 VED + £50/maintenance / month + ~£50 for a DIY service = ~£1.8k

TCO Zoe = (£4.3k x 5) + £600 for 2 years warranty - £10k = £12.1k (maybe slightly more because of the lower mileage)
TCO Fiesta = (£1.8k x 5) = £9k

So that's a ~£3k difference. Even having to replace the Fiesta with another 10+ year old ICE in that time would still leave us ahead.

The car is clearly costing me something (even if it's not the full £350/month), because if we take the calculation to extremes and assume an annual mileage of 1 mile, the Zoe is still going to cost £350*12 (plus servicing etc.) to do that 1 mile - a 10 year old ICE is clearly not going to cost anywhere near that much!

Obviously there's a point between 1 and 15k miles where the crossover occurs, so it's just a matter of establishing where.

Edit 2: Yes - there will be a further "break even" point in X number of years where the Zoe is fully paid off and then saving me money over the ICE which is costing more to keep running. Based on the £1.8k/year running costs and £3k difference above, that's after ~7 years. I would probably not be planning to keep it that long anyway!

Edit: Trust me, I would love to be talked out of it, and if there's a flaw in my calculations, I'm more than happy for you (or anyone else) to point it out to me :) It's just that based on what I can see at the moment for purely financial reasons it makes sense to get rid of it
 

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Conversely the post-Covid working-from-home thing is what's enabled me to afford a Zoe!
My round trip commute is 80 miles, so 400 miles per week, which means I'm doing about 20,000 per year. Bur a couple of days a week at home takes that down to 12,000 miles per year, and makes a PCP affordable!
 

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I know this is a little off topic but you list £50/ month for maintenance and also a DIY service for £50. What are you attributing the £50 a month for? That seems a lot if you are prepared to work on your own car and treat it reasonably.
Adding £600 a year to the figures do bias them somewhat.

Having a 2015 22kWh Zoe (soon to be battery owned) I've recently bought an very cheap S-Max with a ton of miles on it. Admittedly I've spent almost £600 getting it back to good running order but now don't expect to spend anything on it any more apart from fuel which isn't much as it only gets used when we need to haul big stuff or go long distances.
It seems wrong to go back to go back to an ICE car but such is life.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I know this is a little off topic but you list £50/ month for maintenance and also a DIY service for £50. What are you attributing the £50 a month for? That seems a lot if you are prepared to work on your own car and treat it reasonably.
Adding £600 a year to the figures do bias them somewhat.
If anything, it biases the calculation towards keeping the Zoe...

£50/year service, e.g. oil, filters, etc. (probably a bit on the high side but erring on the side of caution)

£50/month or £600/year for MOT, major repairs etc - again more erring on the side of caution, but it's what I would put away each month to cover any eventualities.

I'm happy to do a bit of tinkering here and there - replacing brakes, sensors etc. and servicing, but I have neither the skills/experience or equipment to do any major work such as a suspension or engine rebuild.
 

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Oh, I absolutely get that, and yes, the TCO based on doing 15k is great:

12x £350 + ~£20/month electricity + £95 service= £~4.5k
vs the Fiesta ~£200 petrol + £15 VED + £50/maintenance / month + ~£50 for a DIY service = ~£3.2k

What's the Zoe going to be worth in another 3 years, £8-10k? So after 5 years,
TCO Zoe = (£4.5k x 5) + £600 for 2 years warranty - £10k = £13.1k
TCO Fiesta = (£3.2k x 5) ~£16k

Yup, the Zoe wins that one.

Looking at 6k miles however:
12x £350 + ~£7/month electricity + £95 service = £~4.3k
vs the Fiesta ~£75 petrol + £15 VED + £50/maintenance / month + ~£50 for a DIY service = ~£1.8k

TCO Zoe = (£4.3k x 5) + £600 for 2 years warranty - £10k = £12.1k (maybe slightly more because of the lower mileage)
TCO Fiesta = (£1.8k x 5) = £9k

So that's a ~£3k difference. Even having to replace the Fiesta with another 10+ year old ICE in that time would still leave us ahead.

The car is clearly costing me something (even if it's not the full £350/month), because if we take the calculation to extremes and assume an annual mileage of 1 mile, the Zoe is still going to cost £350*12 (plus servicing etc.) to do that 1 mile - a 10 year old ICE is clearly not going to cost anywhere near that much!

Obviously there's a point between 1 and 15k miles where the crossover occurs, so it's just a matter of establishing where.

Edit 2: Yes - there will be a further "break even" point in X number of years where the Zoe is fully paid off and then saving me money over the ICE which is costing more to keep running. Based on the £1.8k/year running costs and £3k difference above, that's after ~7 years. I would probably not be planning to keep it that long anyway!

Edit: Trust me, I would love to be talked out of it, and if there's a flaw in my calculations, I'm more than happy for you (or anyone else) to point it out to me :) It's just that based on what I can see at the moment for purely financial reasons it makes sense to get rid of it
I think £8-£10k for a 5year old Zoe is very pessimistic....that would mean a steeper depreciation curve in years 3-5 than 1-2! I wouldn't be surprised to seem them north of £12k still.

I might have missed it, but I'm guessing this is using your Fiesta that you already own, so sharing a car with your wife? Is that why there is no purchase price and deprecation costs? To be honest, if you account for a more optimistic sale price of the Zoe, the fact your nearly new Zoe is nearly on price parity with a 2008 Fiesta that you get to run for free is a very strong argument to keep the Zoe!

I have the same situation in being able to use my partners 2010 Mini, but maybe for an extra £1,000 over 3years, I think it's more than worth it to have access to a car that I much prefer to drive that I can use whenever I want!
 

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To simplify your calculations a bit, look at the costs for keeping your Zoe for the next 3 years, vs selling and just using your Wife's Fiesta with no depreciation:

Fiesta cost per month
Fuel = £75
DIY Service = £4 (£50/12)
Maintenance/out of warranty repairs = £50
Depreciation = £0
Total = £129/month

Zoe costs per month
Fuel = £7
Service = £8 (£95/12)
Maintenance/out of warranty repairs = £50 (£295/12 for warranty + £300/12 for tyres, etc.)
Depreciation = £100 (£15,500 current trade - £12,000 predicted trade in 3years = £3,500 deprecation/36months)
Total = £165/month

So, £36 extra a month to drive your very own Zoe for the next 3years completely under warranty compared to sharing your wife's 2008 Fiesta....seems like a no brainer to me!
Even if you assume your pessimistic depreciation of £5,500 over the next 3yrs, it would sill be less than £100/month extra to drive your very own Zoe!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I might have missed it, but I'm guessing this is using your Fiesta that you already own, so sharing a car with your wife? Is that why there is no purchase price and deprecation costs?
Yes, that's correct - the Fiesta is currently sitting on the drive getting a run every couple of weeks to stop it seizing up! She's still learning so doesn't really drive it much.

To simplify your calculations a bit, look at the costs for keeping your Zoe for the next 3 years, vs selling and just using your Wife's Fiesta with no depreciation:

Fiesta cost per month
Fuel = £75
DIY Service = £4 (£50/12)
Maintenance/out of warranty repairs = £50
Depreciation = £0
Total = £129/month

Zoe costs per month
Fuel = £7
Service = £8 (£95/12)
Maintenance/out of warranty repairs = £50 (£295/12 for warranty + £300/12 for tyres, etc.)
Depreciation = £100 (£15,500 current trade - £12,000 predicted trade in 3years = £3,500 deprecation/36months)
Total = £165/month

So, £36 extra a month to drive your very own Zoe for the next 3years completely under warranty compared to sharing your wife's 2008 Fiesta....seems like a no brainer to me!
Even if you assume your pessimistic depreciation of £5,500 over the next 3yrs, it would sill be less than £100/month extra to drive your very own Zoe!
Thanks - those figures make the comparison a bit clearer, this is the kind of post I want to see, and I'll have a rethink :)
 

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Yes, that's correct - the Fiesta is currently sitting on the drive getting a run every couple of weeks to stop it seizing up! She's still learning so doesn't really drive it much.



Thanks - those figures make the comparison a bit clearer, this is the kind of post I want to see, and I'll have a rethink :)
Anytime!

Ive been having exactly the same thoughts so your post was timely :)

I'm probably missing something tho so would be interested to hear what you decide on. I guess for me I have the opportunity cost of putting ~£14k elsewhere, but as you have a 0% loan you don't have to worry about that!
 

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Sell it and go to one car, that has to be the cheapest option.
A newish car will depreciate just sitting on the drive even if you don't drive it.
Sell it on autotrader, or anywhere else you like, and stop paying for a car you're not using.
That's what we've just done with our Niro. We aren't going to be driving as many miles but will need two cars so gave kept the e-Golf, sold the e-Niro and bought a 4 year old ICE.
We've can pay off the car loan and might fill up the petrol tank once a month, maybe every 6 weeks. That's a lot cheaper than the depreciation on a nearly new car.
We do still have one BEV so a lot of our driving will still be electric but the cost comparison is still very relevant.

BTW, I put the Niro on AT about £1k less than the cheapest dealer was selling for and it was sold in 3 days. It was a lot more than WBAC offered, about £3k more.
 

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With the COVID situation as it is, it looks like I'm going to be working from home for the foreseeable future (or at least for the majority of the time!). Given that obviously means my mileage will be dropping significantly, the £250+/month fuel savings are no longer there, and I'm finding it hard to justify continuing to pay £350+/month on a car which is going to be sitting on the drive, making the place look pretty, but doing very little actual driving.
If you're not going to be driving the car very much, do you actually need a car at all? Would it be cheaper to use a taxi for whenever you do need a car?

Edit - sorry - just spotted you're keeping a Fiesta!
 

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Sell it and go to one car, that has to be the cheapest option.
A newish car will depreciate just sitting on the drive even if you don't drive it.
Sell it on autotrader, or anywhere else you like, and stop paying for a car you're not using.
That's what we've just done with our Niro. We aren't going to be driving as many miles but will need two cars so gave kept the e-Golf, sold the e-Niro and bought a 4 year old ICE.
We've can pay off the car loan and might fill up the petrol tank once a month, maybe every 6 weeks. That's a lot cheaper than the depreciation on a nearly new car.
We do still have one BEV so a lot of our driving will still be electric but the cost comparison is still very relevant.

BTW, I put the Niro on AT about £1k less than the cheapest dealer was selling for and it was sold in 3 days. It was a lot more than WBAC offered, about £3k more.
I disagree, as I've highlighted with figures above.

The depreciation on the EV you already own is from it's current trade valuation to whatever it's trade value will be in 2/3yrs time (however long you want to keep it).
In contrast, buying another ICE, even a couple of years older, will be the deprecation from market valuation (i.e. what you buy it for from a dealer) to trade value in 2/3years. A dealer will mark a car up £2/3k more than you can get trade for it, so right off the bat as soon as you buy it you are looking at a big hit on deprecation relative to keeping the EV.

Then there is the fact that EV's in general are seeing lower depreciation over the term relative to ICE. I can't imagine there will be much in it over 3yrs for a 4yr old ICE that you already own, relative to a 2yr old Zoe you already own. I would bet the Zoe depreciates less in fact.

Then add the fuel/VED savings on top......
 

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@Flying Dodo I thought the same after I got rid of the Model 3. I have lived happily without a car in the past, but Ubers are currently unbearable. They either stink of bleach, or you have to wear a mask in a hot car - or have the windows down and get blasted in the face by wind. None of these are pleasant, so I bought an MG.
 

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I disagree, as I've highlighted with figures above.

The depreciation on the EV you already own is from it's current trade valuation to whatever it's trade value will be in 2/3yrs time (however long you want to keep it).
In contrast, buying another ICE, even a couple of years older, will be the deprecation from market valuation (i.e. what you buy it for from a dealer) to trade value in 2/3years. A dealer will mark a car up £2/3k more than you can get trade for it, so right off the bat as soon as you buy it you are looking at a big hit on deprecation relative to keeping the EV.

Then there is the fact that EV's in general are seeing lower depreciation over the term relative to ICE. I can't imagine there will be much in it over 3yrs for a 4yr old ICE that you already own, relative to a 2yr old Zoe you already own. I would bet the Zoe depreciates less in fact.

Then add the fuel/VED savings on top......
But he doesn't need to buy another car, he has one sitting on the drive hardly getting used.
You can't make the cost of running a nearly new car less than not having that car at all.
The only saving is in fuel and if the car isn't getting used much then the savings are small.
It would be better if someone else buys the BEV and uses it, using less fossil fuel, than his Zoe sitting on the drive most of the time doing nothing.
 
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