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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sorry for starting a new thread on this as I know there are some others on looped supply issues.

But I am growing impatient with the progress that has been made so far with the property I am wishing to buy and I would greatly appreciate some advice from people more knowledgeable on the subject than I.

So I posted some photos on here a month or so ago showing the electrics of the property I am buying and hopefully moving into before the end of this year. This is one of the key photos
Gas pump Electrical wiring Gas Machine Electrical supply


It showed 100A on the Mains fuse cut-out which I thought was great, no problem installing a chargepoint. But after researching looped supplies and some alerted me on here to the 2 brown cables coming in at the bottom signifying the high probability of it having a looped supply.

This sent me spiralling, panicking to try to get this confirmed and then hopefully resolved at the latest shortly after moving in. I know how slow the DNO are to act on anything particularly something as complicated as unlooping two properties.

So I contacted UKPowerNetworks to see if they would come round to confirm if it is looped or not and they said the current owners are the only ones who can make this request.

So I provided the estate agent with all the information to give to the current owners and they have tried their best, or so they think.

A couple of weeks ago I am informed that the current owners had enlisted the help of a local EV installer and he says he doesn't think it's looped and thinks it'll be no problem. A relief I thought, but after speaking with him on the phone I became less and less confident that he actually knew what he was talking about and basically was saying I can get a Hypervolt installed and if I'm running a hot tub at the same time it'll be ok because the Hypervolt can manage the load ect.

I am becoming increasingly frustrated because what I requested was for the owners to contact the DNO so they can ascertain if the property is on a looped supply or not and I think because they've spoken to some random EV installer (who probably doesn't care about whether I'll ever be able to charge at the full 7.2kw or not) who says it'll be ok, that it's all fine.

I really wish I could have just organised this myself through UK Power Networks but if I just wait until I move in I risk having no reliable way of charging my car for several months while they get their act together.

I suppose one thing would be to simply allow the chargepoint to be installed with the high risk of it being restricted (so only able to charge at around 3.5kw, too slow to stay within cheap rate period). But if I did that am I stuck? Or can the DNO still unloop without issues and would that then allow me the full charging capability of the chargepoint already installed?

What would you do in my situation?
 

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A couple of weeks ago I had a Ohme pro charger installed my supply is looped 80amp fuse. Like you i was concerned Northern power visited in less than 10 days and authorised the install. My charger can if house use is high limit the charge. I use octopus go faster so 4 hours. I can confirm my unit will go up to 7kw. I did notice the meter is not smart so i assume you are going to have one installed for access of time of use tariff. Good luck
 

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It's only one factor in the myriad of others when buying a property. If you are so close to pulling out anyway that this is the final straw then follow your instinct. Otherwise stick with it.
Otherwise, do an audit on what current draw the house has without a charge point to identify the headroom if you are limited to 60A total. The worst that the DNO are likely to do is limit you to a 16A load limited unit, but provided you buy the correct type (ie most such as Podpoint, Project EV, Zappi etc.) they can have their limit raised by software at a later date.
can the DNO still unloop without issues and would that then allow me the full charging capability of the chargepoint already installed?
So, Yes.
I'd go for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
A couple of weeks ago I had a Ohme pro charger installed my supply is looped 80amp fuse. Like you i was concerned Northern power visited in less than 10 days and authorised the install. My charger can if house use is high limit the charge. I use octopus go faster so 4 hours. I can confirm my unit will go up to 7kw. I did notice the meter is not smart so i assume you are going to have one installed for access of time of use tariff. Good luck
I certainly will need a smart meter yes, but again the DNO won't speak to me until I move in I'd imagine?

But that does sound positive, do you get up to 7kw during the day if you need to charge then also or just overnight? Or does the Ohme not have load restricting?
 

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It looks looped to me, given there are two cables coming in to the bottom of the head. One will be the supply in, the other the supply out to the next house. If it isn't looped, then the only possibility I can think of is that it's a really old supply, fed by two conductors coming in overhead from a pole. It is old, as those meter seals suggest it hasn't been touched in ~30 years, as that's about when they stopped using lead seals, IIRC. Should be able to see from outside if there are two single conductors coming in from a pole. Often these were secured to a bracket on the house that has ceramic insulators, with the insulated line and neutral cables fed down and into the house.

If there are no overhead cables like this, then I strongly suspect it's looped, especially as that fuse holder is a fair bit newer than the meter and seems to have been fitted in the last 15 years, given that the CPC is in the new colours.

The seals are missing from the fuse, so a suitably approved person could turn off the power, pull the fuse and check the rating. My guess is that it will probably be either a 60 A or perhaps 80 A fuse fitted there, but the only way to be sure is to pull it and check.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It looks looped to me, given there are two cables coming in to the bottom of the head. One will be the supply in, the other the supply out to the next house. If it isn't looped, then the only possibility I can think of is that it's a really old supply, fed by two conductors coming in overhead from a pole. It is old, as those meter seals suggest it hasn't been touched in ~30 years, as that's about when they stopped using lead seals, IIRC. Should be able to see from outside if there are two single conductors coming in from a pole. Often these were secured to a bracket on the house that has ceramic insulators, with the insulated line and neutral cables fed down and into the house.

If there are no overhead cables like this, then I strongly suspect it's looped, especially as that fuse holder is a fair bit newer than the meter and seems to have been fitted in the last 15 years, given that the CPC is in the new colours.

The seals are missing from the fuse, so a suitably approved person could turn off the power, pull the fuse and check the rating. My guess is that it will probably be either a 60 A or perhaps 80 A fuse fitted there, but the only way to be sure is to pull it and check.
The supply is overhead, I can't tell if there are two conductors coming in from the pole though.

It is very old however there were updates done in 2000 as you noted the fuse holder being newer.

With it being an over 100+ year old house with overhead cables would that make it less likely it's looped?
 

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I certainly will need a smart meter yes, but again the DNO won't speak to me until I move in I'd imagine?

But that does sound positive, do you get up to 7kw during the day if you need to charge then also or just overnight? Or does the Ohme not have load restricting?
The smart meter is not fitted by the DNO but by your electricity provider, e.g. Octopus, Ovo etc.
To my knowledge the Ohme unit cannot limit based on the overall household load, but can be downrated from 7kW to less and back by Ohme themselves. Others using a CT clamp do this dynamically.
FWIW I was forced into a CT clamp limited device for our second 7kW charge point but it has never limited our charging except during testing - we don't use both ovens and max out both ring mains overnight in addition to charging - "only" 2 X 32A charge points and 2 X 16A immersion plus background is below 100A (aided by the LEAFs only drawing 28A).
 

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Can you see how the next door properties get their supplies? Have they all got their own power (not phone) cables?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
It looks looped to me, given there are two cables coming in to the bottom of the head. One will be the supply in, the other the supply out to the next house. If it isn't looped, then the only possibility I can think of is that it's a really old supply, fed by two conductors coming in overhead from a pole. It is old, as those meter seals suggest it hasn't been touched in ~30 years, as that's about when they stopped using lead seals, IIRC. Should be able to see from outside if there are two single conductors coming in from a pole. Often these were secured to a bracket on the house that has ceramic insulators, with the insulated line and neutral cables fed down and into the house.

If there are no overhead cables like this, then I strongly suspect it's looped, especially as that fuse holder is a fair bit newer than the meter and seems to have been fitted in the last 15 years, given that the CPC is in the new colours.

The seals are missing from the fuse, so a suitably approved person could turn off the power, pull the fuse and check the rating. My guess is that it will probably be either a 60 A or perhaps 80 A fuse fitted there, but the only way to be sure is to pull it and check.

What do you think of this?
Window Sky Building Plant Facade


Shows the overhead cables coming in on the right and coming off from the left. Could be a telephone for all I know on the left but the ones on the right are definitely going into the main fuse as per my photo above.



Actually on closer inspection of the photos I have, the cable coming out on the left of the photo doesn't go directly to nextdoor, it appears to go back to another pole....
Cloud Sky Building Window House


So just to be clear in this photo my property is on the extreme right of this photo and the highest cable in the foreground is coming off of it.
 

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I certainly will need a smart meter yes, but again the DNO won't speak to me until I move in I'd imagine?

But that does sound positive, do you get up to 7kw during the day if you need to charge then also or just overnight? Or does the Ohme not have load restricting?
I have only had my car for 3 weeks at first it was granny cable so i have not yet tried during the day. I see no reason why not other than an electric shower and self cleaning oven nothing else has a significant load and if it was say a shower lowering the charge rate i doubt it would do so for more than 10 minutes
 

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The smart meter is not fitted by the DNO but by your electricity provider, e.g. Octopus, Ovo etc.
To my knowledge the Ohme unit cannot limit based on the overall household load, but can be downrated from 7kW to less and back by Ohme themselves. Others using a CT clamp do this dynamically.
FWIW I was forced into a CT clamp limited device for our second 7kW charge point but it has never limited our charging except during testing - we don't use both ovens and max out both ring mains overnight in addition to charging - "only" 2 X 32A charge points and 2 X 16A immersion plus background is below 100A (aided by the LEAFs only drawing 28A).
The new Ohme pro has a CT clamp and I was given to understand it is dynamic. I went for the Ohme due to size constraints and perhaps because the Zappi was such a long wait list
 

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I stand corrected. Add it to the suitable list!
 

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What do you think of this?
View attachment 150985

Shows the overhead cables coming in on the right and coming off from the left. Could be a telephone for all I know on the left but the ones on the right are definitely going into the main fuse as per my photo above.
The cable on the left looks like the phone, the one on the right looks as if it could be two separate conductors, as I described earlier, coming in and connected to an insulator on a bracket. If you can get a closer shot of that right hand cable and bracket it may help, as it looks to me as if it might be an older supply that does have two separate conductors coming in, rather than the single concentric cables that have been used for the past 40 or 50 years.
 

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Actually on closer inspection of the photos I have the cable coming out on the left of the photo doesn't go directly to nextdoor, it appears to go back to another pole....
In the top photo the cable on the left is phone, on the right an electricity wire.
There lower thicker cable from the left in the second picture from your house to the nextdoor could be a looped supply, or it could go underground either left or right. What wall is the meter on, to the left or right as you look from the front?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What do you think of this?
View attachment 150985

Shows the overhead cables coming in on the right and coming off from the left. Could be a telephone for all I know on the left but the ones on the right are definitely going into the main fuse as per my photo above.



Actually on closer inspection of the photos I have, the cable coming out on the left of the photo doesn't go directly to nextdoor, it appears to go back to another pole....
View attachment 150986
In the top photo the cable on the left is phone, on the right a single electricity wire.
There's a second lower thicker cable from the left in the second picture that could be a looped supply, or it could go underground either left or right. What wall is the meter on, to the left or right as you look from the front?
It's on the right, it's the one with the two cables wrapped together going in
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The cable on the left looks like the phone, the one on the right looks as if it could be two separate conductors, as I described earlier, coming in and connected to an insulator on a bracket. If you can get a closer shot of that right hand cable and bracket it may help, as it looks to me as if it might be an older supply that does have two separate conductors coming in, rather than the single concentric cables that have been used for the past 40 or 50 years.
So not a looped supply? Here's a slightly closer photo of the right hand cables coming into the house

Building Sky Window Plant Fixture
 

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It looks looped to me but relatively easy to unloop as the supply to nextdoor is overhead (from your house). It's more down to the capacity locally now to ascertain any difficulty, and the DNO cannot refuse an increase for an EV unless there are significant issues which, frankly, they are going to have to address anyway because of increasing demand for EVs and heat pumps.
 

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So not a looped supply? Here's a slightly closer photo of the right hand cables coming into the house

View attachment 150987

Probably not looped from that photo. Looks very much like a 1950's era two separate conductor supply to me. Easy to check this by a competent person, as it looks to me as if there are no seals on the terminal cover under the fuse. Removing that would determine for sure whether it's looped or not, and at the same time the fuse could be checked. My gut feeling is that it's not looped, TBH, because apart from anything else, there's no point in running a looped supply like this. They were only used to save cable, by being able to run a cable to one house and a shorter one across to the house next door. Relatively rare to find them on detached houses, too. Mostly they are on semis and terraced houses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Probably not looped from that photo. Looks very much like a 1950's era two separate conductor supply to me. Easy to check this by a competent person, as it looks to me as if there are no seals on the terminal cover under the fuse. Removing that would determine for sure whether it's looped or not, and at the same time the fuse could be checked. My gut feeling is that it's not looped, TBH, because apart from anything else, there's no point in running a looped supply like this. They were only used to save cable, by being able to run a cable to one house and a shorter one across to the house next door. Relatively rare to find them on detached houses, too. Mostly they are on semis and terraced houses.
That is what I thought, but almost everyone has said having looked at the set up that it looks to be looped.

Thanks so much for your help, it's calmed me down a bit. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It looks looped to me but relatively easy to unloop as the supply to nextdoor is overhead (from your house). It's more down to the capacity locally now to ascertain any difficulty, and the DNO cannot refuse an increase for an EV unless there are significant issues which, frankly, they are going to have to address anyway because of increasing demand for EVs and heat pumps.
Where are you seeing the supply to nextdoor?

I'm not saying there isn't one but the only cables coming off the property seem to be these 3. The two going in from the right and the one you think is telephone from the left.

(The cable going down on the left hand side doesn't go underground it seems to loop back into the house, not sure what it's for though.)
 
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