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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I wanted to offer an alternative point of view on the recent madness over chargemasters pricing changes.

One thing that seems to have been overlooked is these rapid chargers are not existing ones that all of a sudden have become paid chargers, they are in addition to the network that exists today. So all those chargers you use for free today will still be there tomorrow.

Now the same cannot be said for 7 and 3 kW posts, however polar/chargemaster were clear when they issued the cards over a year ago that it would be free up until April 2014. So it's not really a surprise that's in April 2014 things are changing.

Yes its disappointing but it's not the end of the world.

I don't see this as the end of EVs or anything like it
 

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Flies in the face of the stated goals and what the funding is apparently for.

Making electric cost more than or the same as petrol is not going to help reduce emissions and improve air quality.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ecotricity outlast Chargemaster (or Chargemaster gets swallowed) despite starting to charge feed later, and I would wager lower than Chargemaster.

CYC I would guess are likely to follow Chargemaster as they seem to be closely related.

What "market forces" are Chargemaster trying to exploit here? They seem to think that most users NEED their service as is the case with fuel pumps, if that's the case I believe they're gravely mistaken.
 

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But they need to charge enough to make a profit and re-invest in the business. Making a loss would just mean going out of business and leaving broken infrastructure

Unfortunately reality hurts

Jon………if a petrol station opens up just down the road from Tesco they set their fuel price at the same discounted price or very close.
CM and MK might a huge profit on the very few charges that happen but they would make far more money if they charged a realistic price.
A much more realistic model would be free electricity and pay per hour parking.
 

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Can't say I agree with you there Jon. It isn't that they are charging per se. It is the scale of the prices when it is clear that no one in their right mind will pay them. Yes, anyone in this business, any business, must make a profit but literally millions of public money has been spent enabling the installation of a charging network that has gone directly onto their balance sheet and now they want to realise a fast buck. I can't believe that they believe people will actually use the network with these prices so it must be about creating a value proposition in preparation to sell. They convert our taxpayers money into a nice windfall for their shareholders... and themselves That is not right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am not saying I agree with the scale of the charging, intact I am pretty sure it will fail and we will end up with orphaned chargers that no one will maintain and no one will pay to remove.

But they think their model will work, only time and the market will tell
 

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So far as I can see it's not that they're charging for use of their government funded charge network that people are upset about, it's how much they're charging and their methodology that people are (quite rightfully I feel) upset about.
I agree with Paul. I also agree that chargemaster need to make a profit but at the same time give the customers a fair deal. This is what they are not doing. As their price structure is at the moment IMO these charges will make the charge points redundant and eventually could be removed.
 

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9 posts on a thread and no mention of Tesla? Something isn't right here!

Flies in the face of the stated goals and what the funding is apparently for.

Making electric cost more than or the same as petrol is not going to help reduce emissions and improve air quality.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ecotricity outlast Chargemaster (or Chargemaster gets swallowed) despite starting to charge feed later, and I would wager lower than Chargemaster.

CYC I would guess are likely to follow Chargemaster as they seem to be closely related.

What "market forces" are Chargemaster trying to exploit here? They seem to think that most users NEED their service as is the case with fuel pumps, if that's the case I believe they're gravely mistaken.
LIKE LIKE LIKE!

Electric shouldn't cost anywhere near the fossil fuel equivalent. The UK is nowhere near the saturation point that could even begin to justify the prices they want to charge.

CM's pricing structure is just taking the piss. There's no other way of phrasing it.

Ecotricity can swing in right now & undercut CM by half. It'd work because they've worked extremely hard to garner support from EV users, and their rapids are in all the right places. Their infrastructure has resulted in me regularly being able to undertake journeys well outside the range of my Leaf. The CM posts I've seen are a joke.... the MK site choice debacle is the icing on the cake.
 

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One of the major issues that I have is that OLEV have announced a decent amount of money to promote EV usage by filling in the patchy rapid charger network, but Chargemaster have somehow stepped in and missappropriated that money to vastly increase their company's value while effectively removing these new government funded chargers from the network by pricing them at a level no EV driver wants to pay.
 

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What's going to happen with all the charging posts installed and maintained by ChargeMaster but accessed by Source East cards etc?
Do they all stop working in April as well?
 

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I have a few concerns
- that chargemaster have a poor history in post reliability
- that the intended charges are higher than drivers will tolerate - to the point of not making EVs at all attractive for journeys requiring charging
- that there are some overnights (nissan leaf 2012 charging at 16A, 31 minute rapid charges) that double the effective cost over what even polar had planned for
- that a lot of public money was used to subsidize the setting up of this network
- that pricing is uniform for all locations - I'd categorize, for example, a local asda (expect low/free) compared on street in city centre (expect more)
 

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What "market forces" are Chargemaster trying to exploit here? They seem to think that most users NEED their service as is the case with fuel pumps, if that's the case I believe they're gravely mistaken.
This is the part that I find fascinating. We are arguing about a service which the users say that they don't see as essential and hence not key to the adoption of EVs and the reduction in emissions etc.

I like free electricity as much as the next person, but if a council wants to start charging for it, they can start charging for it. Hopefully businesses will see the benefit of offering free charging alongside other services, but I really don't see why the tax payer should be paying for someone who just wants to save a few quid.

[Not saying that the prices are right... I certainly won't be using them, but the prices do have to be at a level so that they are not abused and are available for those that actually need them.]
 

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[Not saying that the prices are right... I certainly won't be using them, but the prices do have to be at a level so that they are not abused and are available for those that actually need them.]
On your first point, it's a barrier to entry, the OLEV are apparently supposed to encourage people as much as possible, not put them off.

On the second point in our local example, and probably the most densely populated charging posts in the UK, it's free to block them while parking yet expensive to charge, do they've rather missed that trick!
 

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What's going to happen with all the charging posts installed and maintained by ChargeMaster but accessed by Source East cards etc?
Do they all stop working in April as well?
I have been assured by Source East, that their free card use will continue as before. At some point in the future all providers will introduce some form of payment for their services.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I like free electricity as much as the next person, but if a council wants to start charging for it, they can start charging for it. Hopefully businesses will see the benefit of offering free charging alongside other services, but I really don't see why the tax payer should be paying for someone who just wants to save a few quid.
Agree I am looking at this in a similar way to the early days of wifi, I never understood why anyone would pay for wifi with a monthly subscription to BT hotspots etc however some do, most pay as you go.

A few years on most places offer free wifi in exchange for something, drinking their over priced coffee for example and I am sure this will be what happens to charging posts in the not to distant future
 

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I have been assured by Source East, that their free card use will continue as before. At some point in the future all providers will introduce some form of payment for their services.
Will your Source East card work in a charge master post and avoid chargemaster charges?
 

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On your first point, it's a barrier to entry, the OLEV are apparently supposed to encourage people as much as possible, not put them off.
That's a fair point, but afaik the intention was to cause a network to exist, which OLEV have achieved. It's up to market forces to figure how what the right price should be. If a monopoly has emerged that would be unfortunate, but I'd be asking that question of the local council rather than OLEV. Why has it been awarded to a single supplier? (if indeed it has)

If there were multiple competing networks in MK then presumably this wouldn't be such a problem?

On the second point in our local example, and probably the most densely populated charging posts in the UK, it's free to block them while parking yet expensive to charge, do they've rather missed that trick!
That is a monumental mistake which I'm sure will come to haunt them :)
 
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