Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all I have owned a Peaugot ion for 6 wonderful years but recently have had the orange warning come on and the turtle warning and greatly reduced power.
I am no expert so took the car to Peaugot. £360 later I’ve been told the battery has low resistance and that it needs replacing £16000. I’m not ready to give up the car yet what are my options any ideas. I live in south Somerset.

Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,422 Posts
See if you can find a HEVRA member EV specialist locally, or Cleevley EV, who are I think in the Bristol area, actually Cheltenham.

 

·
Registered
Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
16k for a, what?, 20 kWh battery is an f-ing robbery. Free market and all but the prices manufacturers charge for replacement batteries should directly mean the guillotine.

Either try to get your hands on a salvaged battery or, as farmergiles says, find an EV specialist that can replace a cell or whatever.

Sorry for your predicament. It's a mess and the culprits just get away with it, no questions asked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
From the service report, I think "Found resistance on HV circuit too low" means there is a fault in the isolation between HV and body earth, which should be a minimum of 10 MegOhms.
They then disconnected components that connect to the HV, such as the inverter, the charger, the airconditioner and the heater, and decided that the earth leakage is in the battery itself.
For your £360 diagnosis, did they provide you with a list of the exact error codes that are set?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
From the service report, I think "Found resistance on HV circuit too low" means there is a fault in the isolation between HV and body earth, which should be a minimum of 10 MegOhms.
They then disconnected components that connect to the HV, such as the inverter, the charger, the airconditioner and the heater, and decided that the earth leakage is in the battery itself.
For your £360 diagnosis, did they provide you with a list of the exact error codes that are set?
Unfortunately I don’t have the codes but I will get them and share them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
The key part is INSULATION resistance. An interesting test to carry out on a car because of all the sensitive ELV (12V) components that the test could damage. Anyway “too low” isn’t acceptable. What was the value?

1) Changing the entire battery is unlikely to be required.

2) A 20kWh battery should cost about £6.5k
 

·
Registered
Volkswagen Golf GTE
Joined
·
477 Posts
I take it then it doesn't have any form of battery warranty then, or is it out of that period?

Looking around, it appears that the Ion isn't a very popular model, so the less the popularity of a model, the higher the spares cost tends to be. I agree though that price is rather steep!

I too would be looking to get it recovered to a independent EV specialist at that age, it may be something they can deal with if they take the battery out and strip it and re-insulate. It may just be one cable that's worn through slightly that needs re-sealing.
It's probably unlikely that the whole battery is knackered, but often with dealerships, they're simply not equipped or insured to open a battery to work on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
I take it then it doesn't have any form of battery warranty then, or is it out of that period?

Looking around, it appears that the Ion isn't a very popular model, so the less the popularity of a model, the higher the spares cost tends to be. I agree though that price is rather steep!

I too would be looking to get it recovered to a independent EV specialist at that age, it may be something they can deal with if they take the battery out and strip it and re-insulate. It may just be one cable that's worn through slightly that needs re-sealing.
It's probably unlikely that the whole battery is knackered, but often with dealerships, they're simply not equipped or insured to open a battery to work on it.
Quite! The poor insulation resistance to chassis is very likely to be a short length of wire that has suffered from vibration or poor manufacture. Getting the battery out, open, and finding her fault will be a pain and there is a limited number of companies with the required expertise. However I’d guess someone such as Cleevely would fix/exchange it for £1-2k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,930 Posts
The key part is INSULATION resistance. An interesting test to carry out on a car because of all the sensitive ELV (12V) components that the test could damage. Anyway “too low” isn’t acceptable. What was the value?

1) Changing the entire battery is unlikely to be required.

2) A 20kWh battery should cost about £6.5k
If the problem is insulation breakdown it should actually be repairable at the component level by a HEVRA specialist.

Why ? Because think about where the breakdown will be. I've had a Peugeot Ion traction battery stripped down to replace cells so I know exactly what's inside.

The cells themselves sit in a large insulating enclosure which looks like hard ABS plastic, and this plastic is THICK, like an inch thick. This insulating enclosure is then cradled by a steel frame underneath. Chance of insulation breakdown in the physical enclosure holding the cells ? I'd say zero.

So that leaves a breakdown between the cells and the 12v system - where is that going to happen ? On a faulty CMU board.

The 12 cell management units are bolted to the top of the 4 and 8 cell modules and derive the power to run themselves directly from the cell stack. They have Canbus connectors which branch together and go out via one big canbus data port to the rest of the car on the left hand side of the pack.

This canbus wiring is all referenced to chassis earth as it is part of the 12v system, while the cells in the pack and the HV inputs/outputs are "floating" with respect to the chassis.

The CMU boards will have opto-isolator chips to allow canbus communication between the ground referenced ECU's in the car and the galvanically isolated HV system.

That's where I'd look first. With the traction battery removed and the cover off it's a relatively simple test to check for insulation breakdown between the earth connection on the canbus data plug and a point on the cell stack, then the CMU boards can be unplugged one at a time until the fault goes away.

There are a couple of other less likely possibilities like damage to one of the HV leads but they are pretty sturdy with very thick insulation and proper water tight grommeted seals so I think it's very unlikely, and all of these other possibilities can be easily checked and ruled out with the battery pack partially disassembled.

A HEVRA garage should be able to troubleshoot an insulation resistance problem like this.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,422 Posts
Has the car impacted anything, or been through a flood or ford?

I'd be jacking it up onto axle stands, and getting under to check for damage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,701 Posts
I guess the OP has a choice between a dealer repair, scrapping the car, trying an aftermarket repair.

There was some posts on here with murmers about independent support for imevs and clones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,701 Posts
From the service report, I think "Found resistance on HV circuit too low" means there is a fault in the isolation between HV and body earth, which should be a minimum of 10 MegOhms.
They then disconnected components that connect to the HV, such as the inverter, the charger, the airconditioner and the heater, and decided that the earth leakage is in the battery itself.
For your £360 diagnosis, did they provide you with a list of the exact error codes that are set?
Depends where they disconnected the cables to motor inverter, charger. Aircon compressor, PTC heater. It could still be insulation breakdown in one of the HV leads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,930 Posts
Depends where they disconnected the cables to motor inverter, charger. Aircon compressor, PTC heater. It could still be insulation breakdown in one of the HV leads.
Indeed, the fault could be anywhere in the HV system, however the official Mitsubishi diagnostic processes does have the procedure to narrow it down to a specific device, so presumably this was followed.

In any case if it is in the battery it's relatively easy to drop the battery out, take the top cover off and perform the necessary megger tests to narrow it down.

Unless it's had water ingress (seems unlikely as it is very well sealed apart from the exhaust vent at the top rear where the exhaust fan is mounted, which would take wading through water well above the bottom of the doors for water to ingress) my guess would be a failed isolator on one of the CMU's, or possibly a wiring harness fault between the canbus wiring inside the battery enclosure and one of the cell bus bars or terminals due to chafing of incorrectly routed wires.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top