[CasperStorm]

Are you sure you already have the “Buggy” software ?.
Did you have one of the bad BMS software patches applied to your car or the “Comfort 2” and when ?.
Your high consumption could be caused by other factors as well.

Car was serviced early Nov with C2 and latest BMS update.

Consumption (2.4mpkWh) is high because it was mostly 70mph on the motorway with a bit of suburban 40-50mph too.

At that level it should be good for 100 miles as it was last year , not 80 (for 100% battery).

Will report back soon with how many kWh I manage to stick in from 9% SoC. All last year I was getting about 41kWh assuming 90% AC charger efficiency.

 

[CasperStorm]

Will report back soon with how many kWh I manage to stick in from 9% SoC. All last year I was getting about 41kWh assuming 90% AC charger efficiency.

6 hours on an AC charger, car reading 100%, HV battery 439V (same as yesterday).

Total charge to go from 9-100% was 30.796kWh.

That equates to 33.8kWh for 100%, or about 31kWh usable given 10% charging loss. Last year the same charge unit would regularly work out to 45-46kWh for 100% ~41kWh usable.

ie a big drop!

I noted on the short drive back to my house (about half a mile) there was moderately good regen, to around 15kW from 40mph: way more than a proper full battery would manage.

Earlier at around 12% SoC I saw 390V @ 100-105A regen (40kW) as the car slowed down a motorway offramp from 75mph (regen 3), about 1 mile from home.

 

[Carty]

6 hours on an AC charger, car reading 100%, HV battery 439V (same as yesterday).

Total charge to go from 9-100% was 30.796kWh.

That equates to 33.8kWh for 100%, or about 31kWh usable given 10% charging loss. Last year the same charge unit would regularly work out to 45-46kWh for 100% ~41kWh usable.

ie a big drop!

I noted on the short drive back to my house (about half a mile) there was moderately good regen, to around 15kW from 40mph: way more than a proper full battery would manage.

Earlier at around 12% SoC I saw 390V @ 100-105A regen (40kW) as the car slowed down a motorway offramp from 75mph (regen 3), about 1 mile from home.

I can see that because the updates where applied after the "Buggy" software cut off date of the 23rd Oct - then this likely when the "Bug" infected your car.
Sorry - @CasperStorm.
But please bring me up to speed, are you awaiting the latest BMS software update released on Friday 15th Jan 2021 now ?.
Thanks.

 

[CasperStorm]

I can see that because the updates where applied after the "Buggy" software cut off date of the 23rd Oct - then this likely when the "Bug" infected your car.
Sorry - @CasperStorm.
But please bring me up to speed, are you awaiting the latest BMS software update released on Friday 15th Jan 2021 now ?.
Thanks.

Aye Carty - most of my recent driving had been 30-40 miles without running down too far - with the graticule nonsense you don't really know if those 40 miles took 30% or 40% capacity: you only notice the lack of capacity when you try to use most of it.

Emailed Frasers of Falkirk this morning after making sure there was a significant issue - they offered me Friday morning for update but I'm working so will take it Tuesday instead.

 

[Carty]

Aye Carty - most of my recent driving had been 30-40 miles without running down too far - with the graticule nonsense you don't really know if those 40 miles took 30% or 40% capacity: you only notice the lack of capacity when you try to use most of it.

Emailed Frasers of Falkirk this morning after making sure there was a significant issue - they offered me Friday morning for update but I'm working so will take it Tuesday instead.

Thanks for the feed back.
Please let us know how you get on !.

 

[Jim R]

Aye Carty - most of my recent driving had been 30-40 miles without running down too far - with the graticule nonsense you don't really know if those 40 miles took 30% or 40% capacity: you only notice the lack of capacity when you try to use most of it.

Emailed Frasers of Falkirk this morning after making sure there was a significant issue - they offered me Friday morning for update but I'm working so will take it Tuesday instead.

It would be good to get a number with the new SW updating their experiences!

 

[Jim R]

So for me a good test is tomorrow. I have 96 miles on the GOM and a round journey, half on motorway, of 56 miles. Can see myself 'nursing' on the motorway and planning a top up via zapmap

 

[MikeProcter]

i understand to get the car back to normal will take 50-100 hours of equalisation charging per10V out. 445-455V.

If your car is out by 20V, that will take at a guess 100-200 hours of equalisation charging to get back to 455V.

The BMS i understand can only move around 1-2mV per cell per hour.

So, my takeaway is it’s going to take a while to sort out.

I understand that MG tested this by leaving it in ‘Ready’ overnight, then charged during the day and repeated a few times. Not many of us can do that though.... if we want the car to be there in the morning!!!

 

[Carty]

i understand to get the car back to normal will take 50-100 hours of equalisation charging per10V out. 445-455V.

If your car is out by 20V, that will take at a guess 100-200 hours of equalisation charging to get back to 455V.

The BMS i understand can only move around 1-2mV per cell per hour.

So, my takeaway is it’s going to take a while to sort out.

I understand that MG tested this by leaving it in ‘Ready’ overnight, then charged during the day and repeated a few times. Not many of us can do that though.... if we want the car to be there in the morning!!!

Hi Mike - Thanks for that information.
Bloody hell ! - Then under the current ( C19 ) restrictions and low usage patterns by many owners, that is going to take MONTHS to return to any type of normal / expected range usage then !!!!!!.
What is your personal feelings on that subject then Mike, I know you are still covering a lot more mileage than most of us right now and therefore your reduced range is likely to have a much bigger impact on your work.
What happened to the statement :-
"Four to six charge's is what is expected to re-balance the packs back to normal".
Yes - If you intend to follow MG's lead and leave your car powered up all night to drain the HV pack, and then carry out an almost daily, recharge of your HV battery again a few times a week, then this maybe possible.
I guess, here is the million dollar question :-
Have MG actually proved 110% that by carrying out this repeated process, after the BMS upgrade, that this does actually return the car to it's normal expected range / charging / pack voltage ?.
Our is this just ANOTHER rushed through BMS software upgrade like the last two that is likely to be subjected to another update again in the future and is just buying more time for the correct fix that we are long over due ?.
The latest BMS update released on the 19th Jan 2021 is welcomed of course.
But clearly NOT a "Quick Fix" by a HUGE mile !.
Even after the update has been applied, the process to return the car to the normal expected condition, is far short of a practical solution for many many owners.
Given that the learning curve to now balance the pack is going to be cycle lengthy process, then I am sure NOT many owners are going to be ecstatic about this news.
Some owners who have had the "Buggy" software installed in their cars for a long time now, are only reporting 430 - 435 volts on the HV pack after a very over lengthy charge / balancing process.
Even after the so called "Fix" they still going to have to subject their cars to a continued process of lengthy charges / balances, before their HV battery voltage is returned to the magic 445 volts.
A few members ( like myself ) who have had now had the update already, are witnessing a pack voltage of 450 volts after a full charge / balancing process on first boot up of the car, and a reported GOM predicted mileage of around 162 miles.
There is a bit of a similar pattern forming here, either correctly or incorrectly as
nobody appears to be able to verify this ?.
Given we are now seeing 450 volts, then we are only slightly behind the magic expected figure of 445 volts.
So in theory our HV pack voltage SHOULD recover quicker than most, but let's see.
Owners who have had their HV packs badly affected by previous "Buggy" software issues, could therefore be this sitting on a pack with only 430 volts and also have a small usage case due to C19.
For them, they face a long "slog" to get their HV packs back up to correct operating values and restored range capability.
I don't rightfully know who's fault this mess truly is ......... but one thing I am confident of here, it is NOT owner's fault !.
This subject is likely to drag on for some time folks.
And so it should until it is finally resolved.
MG should put out a statement to the affected owners, but that is clearly not going to happen !.

 

[shikoku14]

I don’t want to pour fuel onto the fire of the BMS update saga, but do we know if there are any long term degradation implications from cells being out of balance for a long period of time. From following a few Leaf threads this can cause issues like it dropping into turtle mode and even stopping higher up the percentage left scale due to protecting the weak cell.

As @Carty mentions above it could be many months for some owners to do the kind of miles that would allow the balancing @MikeProcter mentions. Could there be irreparable SoH loss due to them being out of balance for that long?

 

[Miles Roberts]

Hi Mike - Thanks for that information.
Bloody hell ! - Then under the current ( C19 ) restrictions and low usage patterns by many owners, that is going to take MONTHS to return to any type of normal / expected range usage then !!!!!!.
What is your personal feelings on that subject then Mike, I know you are still covering a lot more mileage than most of us right now and therefore your reduced range is likely to have a much bigger impact on your work.
What happened to the statement :-
"Four to six charge's is what is expected to re-balance the packs back to normal".
Yes - If you intend to follow MG's lead and leave your car powered up all night to drain the HV pack, and then carry out an almost daily, recharge of your HV battery again a few times a week, then this maybe possible.
I guess, here is the million dollar question :-
Have MG actually proved 110% that by carrying out this repeated process, after the BMS upgrade, that this does actually return the car to it's normal expected range / charging / pack voltage ?.
Our is this just ANOTHER rushed through BMS software upgrade like the last two that is likely to be subjected to another update again in the future and is just buying more time for the correct fix that we are long over due ?.
The latest BMS update released on the 19th Jan 2021 is welcomed of course.
But clearly NOT a "Quick Fix" by a HUGE mile !.
Even after the update has been applied, the process to return the car to the normal expected condition, is far short of a practical solution for many many owners.
Given that the learning curve to now balance the pack is going to be cycle lengthy process, then I am sure NOT many owners are going to be ecstatic about this news.
Some owners who have had the "Buggy" software installed in their cars for a long time now, are only reporting 430 - 435 volts on the HV pack after a very over lengthy charge / balancing process.
Even after the so called "Fix" they still going to have to subject their cars to a continued process of lengthy charges / balances, before their HV battery voltage is returned to the magic 445 volts.
A few members ( like myself ) who have had now had the update already, are witnessing a pack voltage of 450 volts after a full charge / balancing process on first boot up of the car, and a reported GOM predicted mileage of around 162 miles.
There is a bit of a similar pattern forming here, either correctly or incorrectly as
nobody appears to be able to verify this ?.
Given we are now seeing 450 volts, then we are only slightly behind the magic expected figure of 445 volts.
So in theory our HV pack voltage SHOULD recover quicker than most, but let's see.
Owners who have had their HV packs badly affected by previous "Buggy" software issues, could therefore be this sitting on a pack with only 430 volts and also have a small usage case due to C19.
For them, they face a long "slog" to get their HV packs back up to correct operating values and restored range capability.
I don't rightfully know who's fault this mess truly is ......... but one thing I am confident of here, it is NOT owner's fault !.
This subject is likely to drag on for some time folks.
And so it should until it is finally resolved.
MG should put out a statement to the affected owners, but that is clearly not going to happen !.

You don't need to do a full pack discharge before you do a balance charge. What I have discovered is that the car does a discharge cell balance whilst discharging from 100-93%. So all you need to do is use a few percent, then stick it back on charge again. You will get the cells back healthy again much quicker by doing this, than you would by running it right down and charging from a low SOC.

 

[shikoku14]

Great tip @Miles Roberts, I can add that if you have access to a garage (or are willing to work in a warm car) you will loose around 2-3% per hour having the car turned on in ready mode and the heating on. It might be a way for those of you stuck at home to accelerate the process somewhat. This comes form me doing one of the mgevs YouTube podcasts from inside the ZS (thanks to my 4 year old kicking off inside the house and refusing to go down to sleep when the pod was supposed to start recording!).

 

[Carty]

You don't need to do a full pack discharge before you do a balance charge. What I have discovered is that the car does a discharge cell balance whilst discharging from 100-93%. So all you need to do is use a few percent, then stick it back on charge again. You will get the cells back healthy again much quicker by doing this, than you would by running it right down and charging from a low SOC.

Hi @Miles Roberts.
Thank you for that interesting feed back.
This is a little more encouraging news I have to say !.
I like a few owners have now already had the 15th Jan 2021 update, as I am sure you are well aware.
We are now reporting a HV pack voltage of 450 volts and a range of around 162 miles in normal mode on the GOM.
Therefore, we are close to achieving the magical 455 volts.
Is this a what your EV Tech’s have witnessed Miles ?.
If so, then given the information received by yourself this morning, owners should be able to return our packs to normal expected levels in a fairly short time scale, would you not agree.
If so, this will go along way to ally the fears that owners rightfully have right now
I am expecting questions on this subject to be on the list again for the pod cast on Monday that’s for sure !.
There is a great opportunity here to head off this problem at the pass, would you not agree.
Once again, thanks for the feedback Miles.
You comments are always gladly appreciated.

 

[shikoku14]

There is an interesting thread on the other forum on how the pack in made up, and (this could be just speculation due to not enough cycles being run) that 450V is now the top of the usable pack with this BMS update but we can go lower into it (and why this may be) - MG fully charged voltage

 

[CasperStorm]

Currently getting 438-439V, due update next week.

Since getting the car I have used the same public AC charging point for measuring how many kWh I can get into the car (44.5-45.5 before taking into account the ~10% loss for AC->DC conversion, earlier in the week was more like 33ish) so this will help compare before and after rather than raw pack voltage.

 

[Carty]

Currently getting 438-439V, due update next week.

Since getting the car I have used the same public AC charging point for measuring how many kWh I can get into the car (44.5-45.5 before taking into account the ~10% loss for AC->DC conversion, earlier in the week was more like 33ish) so this will help compare before and after rather than raw pack voltage.

Looking forward to the results from your tests.

 

[Jim R]

Busy week for me so not posted. I have had two full and balanced charges this week. What I am seeing (and hope it is a trend ) is the voltage going up 1v after each charge. After the last one at 437v. That considered, the mileage and GOM is rubbish. Basically halve the mileage. So we have a working range of 70 miles

@Miles Roberts If I understand you post correct, if the battery is under 93%, charge the car and it will do a balance so (hopefully) the improvement will be seen quicker? Also, big question, will I ever get back to my original range?

 

[Jim R]

So for me a good test is tomorrow. I have 96 miles on the GOM and a round journey, half on motorway, of 56 miles. Can see myself 'nursing' on the motorway and planning a top up via zapmap

This became a saga. My 27 mile trip dropped the GOM 60 miles. Motorway driving at 65mph. So ended up finding a charger on the way back to top up via ZapMap. BP Pulse unit that the Pulse app map did not recognise

 

[CasperStorm]

.....Also, big question, will I ever get back to my original range?

Range fluctuates so much you'll never be sure.

What can be measured however is how many kWh it takes to fill the pack.

Which is exactly what I'll start measuring after the update next week.

I know it takes roughly 45.5kWh to fill my car from 0->100% at a local AC charger.

Last week it was more like 33.5kWh (max voltage 439v)

 

[Carty]

Range fluctuates so much you'll never be sure.

What can be measured however is how many kWh it takes to fill the pack.

Which is exactly what I'll start measuring after the update next week.

I know it takes roughly 45.5kWh to fill my car from 0->100% at a local AC charger.

Last week it was more like 33.5kWh (max voltage 439v)

Bit of a "Head's Up" and what do you make of this !.
I have carried out my first charge / balance cycle today after the latest BMS update (15.01.2021 ) about 10 days ago.
The car was reporting 92 miles of range and 411 volts on the pack before I commenced the charge.
Placed the car on charge at 11.30am this morning ( 30.01.2021).
The very first thing I noticed, was that my house energy monitor was suggesting that the car was only requesting just under 4.0 kw from the 7.0 kw wall box.
Was it because I was starting at such a high SOC ?.
Very strange, but we move on.
Checked the car again at 1.30pm it was now at 81% and 120 miles of range, the car was estimating that it required 2hrs 40mins to complete, energy meter still showing about 4.0kw of consumption.
Checked in again at 2.30pm and displaying 89% and 134 miles of range, the car was then showing 1hr 40mins to complete the charge.
MG logo still pulsing at this stage.
At 3.30pm we are now at 96% and 147 miles of range with 39 mins to complete, status MG light still flashing.
Just over an hour latter at 4.45pm the display in the car is stating charge is 100% complete, with 154 miles of range, MG logo is now into a constant glowing mode.
So, we have now entered the "Balancing" stage at LONG last, the car is now drawing 572 watts on the energy monitor as part of the balancing process.
Looking at the time it had taken to charge from 92% to 100% this confirms that the 4.0kw being displayed on our energy monitor was indeed correct then.
It is now 6.30pm and the car is STILL balancing, I will leave it connected until the car quits the demand from the wall box, god only knows how long this will take !.
I have spoken to owners from another forum who are also seeing very long charging / balancing cycles that to be honest are making the car almost impossible to use their cars if they are being used on a daily basis.
Nobody ( as of yet ) has witnessed lower power being supplied to the car from their wall boxes, like myself.
But many are reporting long charging length / balancing issues that are taking over 11 - 12 hour ( plus) and battery voltage is still low.
This reduction in power when charging ( If other people are affected ) would go someway into explaining why the charge cycle is taking SO long, do you not agree ?.
The saga continues.