Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
Emma- Can I suggest you move this to the top level so all EV's can see it? Leaf 24 and 30 will have fewer visits compared to the complete site. If you can't do it ask a moderator to do it for you, they are pretty helpful here.
Cheers Tony.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
I'm pretty sure this is legislation already in place that all new installations must have contactless...???

EDIT: all new ones yes, doesn't apply to old chargers

Big ask, they will all get replaced eventually as ecotricity are in the process of doing their rollout
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,291 Posts
I'm pretty sure this is legislation already in place that all new installations must have contactless...???

EDIT: all new ones yes, doesn't apply to old chargers

Big ask, they will all get replaced eventually as ecotricity are in the process of doing their rollout
I noticed the Chargemaster Ultracharger near me on the CPS network now has a second contactless reader mounted on the front that wasn't there 6 months ago, so it seems at least some networks are retrofitting their existing rapids..

It is a little bit confusing when you have two RFID readers side by side though - one which can read contactless credit/debit cards and one which can read the networks RFID member cards, as if you use the wrong reader the machine will respond to the presence of the card but fail.

Engenie seems to do the same thing with two separate readers while instavolt has one reader which does both RFID cards and debit/credit cards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
I'm pretty sure this is legislation already in place that all new installations must have contactless...???

EDIT: all new ones yes, doesn't apply to old chargers

Big ask, they will all get replaced eventually as ecotricity are in the process of doing their rollout
There’s no legislation in place (for old or new chargers).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,691 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Wightleaf

·
Registered
Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
Joined
·
624 Posts
There’s no legislation in place (for old or new chargers).
You may be correct that no legislation has yet been passed, but the Government position is All new rapid chargepoints should offer card payment by 2020.

I thought it had been legislated for new rapid chargers through secondary legislation, with ministers having the power to do so through the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018. It's possible that they've only threatened to do so.

So the only reason for signing the petition is if you want it to be a requirement for card payment to be retrofitted to existing rapid chargers and to non-rapid chargers. All new rapids is good enough for me. I've not seen a rapid installed recently that does not take card payments ... but I filter for card payments only on ZapMap.

I'm sure someone might be able to point one out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
You may be correct that no legislation has yet been passed, but the Government position is All new rapid chargepoints should offer card payment by 2020.

I thought it had been legislated for new rapid chargers through secondary legislation, with ministers having the power to do so through the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018. It's possible that they've only threatened to do so.

So the only reason for signing the petition is if you want it to be a requirement for card payment to be retrofitted to existing rapid chargers and to non-rapid chargers. All new rapids is good enough for me. I've not seen a rapid installed recently that does not take card payments ... but I filter for card payments only on ZapMap.

I'm sure someone might be able to point one out.
All correct. The Government announced only their ambition that this should happen. And the AEV Act would allow the Government to enforce this position should they choose but it is not, as yet, actually a legal requirement.

There are many measures in the AEV Act which are good ideas but which have not been applied.

In reality, the Government have always been unwilling to intervene and continue to adopt a market-led strategy.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
I don't actually want this to pass. I know that a lot of the existing chargers, DBT for example cannot be fitted with any way of taking contactless credit card payments. If a law was made to force all chargers to accept it, I know that some otherwise working chargers will end up getting decommissioned and removed due to this policy, and I'd guess the majority of them wouldn't actually get a new replacement installed so instead we go without.

I'm fine with the new rules about all new installs, though I admit I've seen quite a few chargers installed this year that haven't followed this requirement.

noticed the Chargemaster Ultracharger near me on the CPS network now has a second contactless reader mounted on the front that wasn't there 6 months ago, so it seems at least some networks are retrofitting their existing rapids..
That one actually really annoyed me. A CPS Ultracharger that was free to use with a CPS card or the app bills you Polar network contactless rates charged by the kWh if you tap a credit card to start a charge. I've seen a few Zap Map comments by confused/angry people who have been caught out by that on a few different units I've stopped at before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,291 Posts
That one actually really annoyed me. A CPS Ultracharger that was free to use with a CPS card or the app bills you Polar network contactless rates charged by the kWh if you tap a credit card to start a charge. I've seen a few Zap Map comments by confused/angry people who have been caught out by that on a few different units I've stopped at before.
Fair point, however on the other hand, I'm not sure what else someone should expect to happen if they use their contactless debit card to start a charge ? A £0.00 charge to the card ? (Can that even happen? I think there must be a minimum non-zero charge for all transactions) I think most people understand that swiping a contactless card means they are going to pay something, although it should perhaps be made clear what they are going to be charged.

While charging with the RFID card is free, the card itself is not as it is £20 a year. If you could just wave any debit card at the machine and charge for free that would skirt the requirement for the RFID card.

Remember that free charging on CPS is only a temporary situation. Ultimately we will be charged for this so having a companion debit card reader makes sense in that context, although I wish they would just use one physical reader like Instavolt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Yuck! Would that mean we cannot drive for 5 days each time we lose our bank cards and wait for replacements?
No - there is no problem with having alternate payment methods, just that contactless should always be an option.
It is unlikely to be financially viable for AC chargers to have contactless as the payment hardware would be a significant proportion of the total cost. ISTR reading that the regulations for card readers in unattended locations add additional costs over those for retail and simiilar situations due to fraud concerns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,291 Posts
Yuck! Would that mean we cannot drive for 5 days each time we lose our bank cards and wait for replacements?
Apple pay / Google Pay on your phone as a backup ? Works great for me when I've tried it with Instavolt.

Do you keep enough cash on hand for groceries if you lose your bank cards or do you go hungry for 5 days as well ? Just asking. :)
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Fair point, however on the other hand, I'm not sure what else someone should expect to happen if they use their contactless debit card to start a charge ? A £0.00 charge to the card ? (Can that even happen? I think there must be a minimum non-zero charge for all transactions) I think most people understand that swiping a contactless card means they are going to pay something, although it should perhaps be made clear what they are going to be charged.
You can definitely do a zero value contactless transaction. I've done a few over the years. Alternatively they could have done the usual Polar network £29 pre-auth but then not claim it and let it drop off afterwards. If they are allowing people to charge free with a RFID Card or an app, they shouldn't be charging someone for tapping a credit card, especially without making it very clear what they will be paying.

Yuck! Would that mean we cannot drive for 5 days each time we lose our bank cards and wait for replacements?
Both of the banks I am with have the facility to produce on the spot replacement credit and debit cards within a few minutes if you visit a local branch. I Personally wouldn't be happy to deal with a bank who expects you to wait close to a week for a replacement card in 2020.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Which 2 banks offer this facility please?
Metro Bank and Barclays.
Clydesdale/Yorkshire Bank were also talking about doing this but I don't know if they have implemented it yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
If the UK government had been more forward thinking, like the Netherlands, they'd have allowed RFIDs but with a requirement that the charging networks must support roaming and accept each other's RFIDs.

Because the issue is really about having some universal means of payment for EV charging; contactless payment is one option, a roaming RFID account is another.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
I think it's a matter of ignorance on the part of charging station operators. There are already large interconnected eroaming providers (largest one is hubject) to which many charging station operators (shell recharge, EnBW, LeClerc etc.) and consumer facing apps/cards (Maingau, Shell Recharge, Plugsurfing, Chargemap) are connected. None of these 4 apps/cards providers i mentioned require any subscription (plugsurfing does offer the option though).

Operators have the possibility of choosing whether to integrate their units in one or more roaming networks, but some think that they can do better on their own (yet another card), or don't want to lose money on fees paid to the roaming providers, because anyway they make already so little from charging services.

I don't think it's the government's job to say "you must provide this and that" for this kind of business, as it is not involving a human right.

I'm rather biased, because I use primarily 2 RFID cards/apps in Germany, Netherlands, Austria and France for all my charging needs (ADAC + Maingau) and these two card providers debit my bank account every month with whatever I consume, with itemised and detailed invoices; so I don't see per se a need to have contactless payments at charging stations, rather have the charging stations integrated in the large roaming networks.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top