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Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
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Discussion Starter #1
Edit: Apologies - accidentally posted in the General EV forum instead of the ZOE forum. Will post there as well.

On ZOE ZE40 models (and presumably the 22kWh models), if you locked the car by pressing the button on the key fob it would only unlock using the key fob. Hand-free locking was disabled. This meant that thieves could not use a simple amplifier (man-in-the-middle) approach to make the car think the key fob was close to it, and just open a door.

We've just collected our ZE50 and the behaviour has changed, in my opinion for the worse. If hands-free unlocking is switched on then you can always just open the car if you have the key on you, even if you locked it with the key fob. So the man-in-the-middle attack is once again available to thieves and you do need to keep your key fob in a metal enclosure in the house. What a drag - I was quite happy just to lock the car with the key fob to get the same security.

There is one simple solution, which is to totally disable hands-free locking/unlocking in the settings. You are then forced to use the key fob, but the advantage is that the simple man-in-the-middle attack can't work.

This is just like cars used to be and I find it perfectly usable. I suppose it would be annoying if you have got used to leaving your key fob in your bag/case.
 

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you do need to keep your key fob in a metal enclosure in the house.
Not quite true. Just don't leave it near the front door.
When my car is left on the drive (it's usually locked in the garage) I just put the key on a bookshelf near the middle of the house.
 

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Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
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Discussion Starter #4
Can you not deadlock it by double clicking the lock button on the key fob to disable keyless entry?
You can deadlock the ZE50, so that it can't be opened from inside the car, by double clicking the lock button. But it doesn't disable keyless entry - and nor does single clicking.

Both single clicking (to lock) or double clicking (to deadlock) used to disable keyless entry on the ZE40.

The whole point of my post was to alert ZOE owners (and I guess other Renault owners) to the change.
 

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No organised car thieves with the tech for this are targeting Zoe’s

I always leave the key to the zoe and Tesla somewhere obvious downstairs, as even if they can’t man in middle it, if they want the car that badly they are coming in your house for the key. It’s best they find it than wake you up at knife point to tell them where it is

This is what insurance is for people, I wouldn’t be disabling the feature and convenience on the small percentage chance it gets stolen....
 

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Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
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Discussion Starter #6
Only you know if you are worried about people entering at knife point where you live.

I agree that the ZOE is not the high value car that such types are likely to target. Indeed, I only think (not worry) about the opportunistic types with amplifiers that will take something easy, and move on if it isn't.

We have yet to see if a market in EV batteries develops, such as the one for old catalysts to extract the platinum. We had a spate of catalyst being hacked off the bottom of certain ICEs, where they were easy to access. It's not too big a step to seeing batteries unbolted from EVs at some point.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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.... and you do need to keep your key fob in a metal enclosure in the house.
.. or put the car itself in a metal and brick enclosure! ;)

I don't find this good at all either, it really makes no sense that there is not a simple means to disable the auto unlock by a simple double-press or such.

That being said, the auto unlock is beginning to wind me up, when you have the key with you and walk back and forth out side 'bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bl00dy bleep, bl00dy click'.

You'd think that if there were a couple of attempts to open then relocked, it give up and expect you to use the key?

So at some point when I remember, I plan to disable it anyway.

It's really just quite poorly thought through, as if no-one ever actually tried living with the car before they started selling them. Not at all what I was expecting on a 3rd gen attempt.

Overall, disappointed with Renault's attempt, but the price was right and trumps any such minor disappointments (so far .... ).
 

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Only you know if you are worried about people entering at knife point where you live.

I agree that the ZOE is not the high value car that such types are likely to target. Indeed, I only think (not worry) about the opportunistic types with amplifiers that will take something easy, and move on if it isn't.

We have yet to see if a market in EV batteries develops, such as the one for old catalysts to extract the platinum. We had a spate of catalyst being hacked off the bottom of certain ICEs, where they were easy to access. It's not too big a step to seeing batteries unbolted from EVs at some point.
If they want your car, no matter where you live they are coming in the house..

lol no one is going to be unbolting 300kg of battery to steal, like a cat you’d need serious equipment for that!

all this putting your key in faraday cages and not being able to disable keyless being a “disappointment” blaming Renault etc is peak karenism
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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If they want your car, no matter where you live they are coming in the house..
This isn't really true though, this isn't how most crime works.

Criminals are opportunists, if you don't give them an opportunity at your house, they'll move on to the next.

Yes, for sure, if they want 'YOUR' car and they target you then, hey, you're right.

But I think you've probably watched John Wick and figure that's how it works. Maybe very occasionally for special cars, but you're car ain't that special.

If they were prepared to bust your house and seize your key by force, they wouldn't be buying kit to do this electronic shenanigans with, would they?

Many criminals see nothing wrong with this sort of crime, just taking property off those who don't take care of it, hey, you can afford to lose it and you've just proved they are right with your statement there. Most of those same criminals would not, actually, consider it right to resort to physical violence.

I mean, taking your 'logic' to its ultimate conclusion proves it to be wrong; why not just leave the car open, with the key in it?
 

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That being said, the auto unlock is beginning to wind me up, when you have the key with you and walk back and forth out side 'bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bl00dy bleep, bl00dy click'.
I have a simple solution to this.

I merely leave the key in the car and put a sign in the windscreen saying:

“This is a Zoe FRENCH ELECTRIC Car!”

Seems to work.
 

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2019 Leaf 40
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Leaf is the same. I think you can only disable keyless completely in the menu. It's also lacking the auto lock feature of the Zoe so mine was left open lots while I was using the selective unlock feature as it often unlocks all the doors when you think it should lock the one it has opened. If you open with one door button and try and lock it with another then it unlocked instead of locking the car back up after you used it.

Fortunately nobody in their right mind would steal a Leaf.
 

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lol no one is going to be unbolting 300kg of battery to steal, like a cat you’d need serious equipment for that!
I think they should be encouraged to try. A hefty battery pack dropping on the skull would lead to a welcome reduction in the lowlife population.
 

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That being said, the auto unlock is beginning to wind me up, when you have the key with you and walk back and forth out side 'bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bleep, click, bl00dy bleep, bl00dy click'.
You can disable the beeping in the menu somewhere, there's an option for "silent mode". I switched it on as soon as I saw the option, so I've never actually walked around the car with it beeping, but if it beeps on every click as I suspect then as well as being annoying it's probably going to upset the neighbours!
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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You can disable the beeping in the menu somewhere, there's an option for "silent mode". I switched it on as soon as I saw the option, so I've never actually walked around the car with it beeping, but if it beeps on every click as I suspect then as well as being annoying it's probably going to upset the neighbours!
Yeah, I saw that but then it just rolls on to the next question ... did it lock or unlock?

It's as annoying as the Kia Soul, always flapping its frikkin' mirrors when you walk by. Why don't they open when you unlock? NO, marketing people, it does NOT look like a cute doggy being alert to its owner and making me feel all good and welcomed as I approach it, it's an effing CAR and the mirrors should open when I UNLOCK!! What's so hard about that to understand?!?!?
 

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On the Kona you can disable the 'welcome mirrors'. Could you not do that on the Soul? (Be a RTFM I expect)
 

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Corsa-e Elite 2020
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Does the key not have protection built in? On some cars if the key hasn't moved for a few seconds it turns off and only turns back on when it detects being picked up or moved.
 
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