[Trick Cyclist]

On another thread Jack & I are debating whether to change cars when the battery comes up for replacement. I have an i3 REX - 2 years old, which is working well, but I have always intended to keep the car permanently & to replace the battery when necessary - hopefully with an improved upgraded version. This is only feasible if future BMW models are designed with this in mind.

Apart from driving economically & using a "green" energy supplier is there anything else to be done?

My difficulty may be that in the future the cars will be better & cheaper & I may wish to get away from IC entirely so REX will be very out of favour & I will be in an environmental dilemma.

 

[Grum]

I try to charge when the grid is at it's greenest, which is usually in the small hours. I downloaded an app called Grid carbon so I can check the status of the grid at any time.

 

[Mike From Manchester]

This very morning I (we) took a test drive in i3 at Williams BMW Manchester, whilst chatting to the 'genius' he was unable to shed any light on possible remodelling expected Julyish but may only be cosmetic. He did volunteer that the battery pack is just bolted in and fairly easy to replace (with increased range) although the speculation was that the cost would probably be geared to encouraging us to buy a new car.

 

[smartie]

More like trying to minimise environmental harm rather than maximise benefit.

 

[Ralf]

@smartie - I applaud you for your very charitable interpretation!

 

[Trick Cyclist]

Well living has an environmental cost...... Electric cars are [I think] relatively beneficial. I do lots of other things to try & reduce environmental cost/ harm, but it's outside the scope of this discussion.

 

[Trick Cyclist]

This very morning I (we) took a test drive in i3 at Williams BMW Manchester, whilst chatting to the 'genius' he was unable to shed any light on possible remodelling expected Julyish but may only be cosmetic. He did volunteer that the battery pack is just bolted in and fairly easy to replace (with increased range) although the speculation was that the cost would probably be geared to encouraging us to buy a new car.

I believe they are usually trying to make sure you buy "end of model" by minimising the impact of the changes - one of which may be a larger battery at greater cost.

 

[TimJMS]

I try to charge when the grid is at it's greenest, which is usually in the small hours. I downloaded an app called Grid carbon so I can check the status of the grid at any time.

Is that true though? There is going to be no contribution to the grid from hundreds of thousands of PV arrays at those times.

 

[kevin smith]

How menu people use there own energy I /e home electric point we use day time & try to do approx 95% of home charging . loving it hope that when I do despratley need a charge via rapid its not extorshanate that wouldn't be great hopefully £0.5p per kWh to £0.15p approx . hope ecotricity are listening ?

 

[Plugincarguy]

No but there will be from wind turbines. Besides, night-time is when demand on the grid is lowest.

 

[Wowbagger]

How menu people use there own energy I /e home electric point we use day time & try to do approx 95% of home charging . loving it hope that when I do despratley need a charge via rapid its not extorshanate that wouldn't be great hopefully £0.5p per kWh to £0.15p approx . hope ecotricity are listening ?

Quite a lot of my miles are powered by my own energy. It's called cycling!

 

[AMS]

I have always intended to keep the car permanently & to replace the battery when necessary - hopefully with an improved upgraded version.

I can see the logic in that. It's not like it's going to rust. They could be like the Trabant of the twentyteens and just keep going.

 

[kevin smith]

I have a lovley kalkhoff electric bike but if I could get to it in my crazy garage it would be great .

 

[Grum]

Is that true though? There is going to be no contribution to the grid from hundreds of thousands of PV arrays at those times.

I have no idea how accurate the Grid Carbon app is but the UK total gCO2/kWh seems to drop after midnight until 6 or 7 am. I think the main benefit is from the low demand which means the coal fired stations are taken offline. Wind power is an increasing contributor to carbon less electricity and that works throughout the night. pv is not accounted for separately, I think the big solar farms are classed as 'other'. A lot of pv is from micro generation (domestic rooftops) which is not measured by the national grid they only 'see' it in terms of a reduction in demand.

 

[EVPotential]

On another thread Jack & I are debating whether to change cars when the battery comes up for replacement. I have an i3 REX - 2 years old, which is working well, but I have always intended to keep the car permanently & to replace the battery when necessary - hopefully with an improved upgraded version. This is only feasible if future BMW models are designed with this in mind.

Apart from driving economically & using a "green" energy supplier is there anything else to be done?

My difficulty may be that in the future the cars will be better & cheaper & I may wish to get away from IC entirely so REX will be very out of favour & I will be in an environmental dilemma.

Same here, though I a larger family could see a need to swap the car for something with 5 seats.

There's been several interviews with execs in BMW, some who said no plans to offer upgrades, but others said there were plans. We'll fund out for definite after July when the new battery is available. I think it will be a big + for the i programme for potential new customers if they offer an upgrade / replacement path. Worse case is you can buy OEM parts to replace the cells with original units. Though the reality is if BMW don't offer cells, someone else will! I think worldwide there's now been several 10s of thousands of i3s sold, so enough interest will be there. If Telsa can make it viable on the Roadster which only had a run of 2,000 vehicles BMW should be able to offer warrantied battery upgrades.

The REX will never cease to be useful. Say in 3 years time, you have a new 60kWh battery. Any day you are doing over 200 miles is a chance where you'll not have a convenient place to stop, or more likely when you get to a charger, the other 200,000 EVs on the roads mean when you get there, all 2 or 3 of the charging units are already occupied. Do you want to hang around for 20 minutes to charge and then charge for 20 yourself, or just REX it to the next stop?

The big thing you need to do is educate everyone else ;-) On how awesome EVs are.

 

[Trick Cyclist]

The difficulty is that BMW & other manufacturers have a financial incentive to sell new cars which is undercut by offering upgrades. I hope you are right about potential independent battery suppliers.

 

[AMS]

The obsolescence built into most cars was rust, and wear and tear on major engine components. I3 should be pretty well protected from both of those, so what else could make it obsolete?

Interior wear and tear, I guess. Or a new road tax regime which makes them uneconomical. Or software vulnerabilities that BMW won't patch on their legacy models 12 years down the line.

I suppose the battery or motor would be relatively expensive to replace once the car's value is down to 4 figures, but we don't really know the durability of those components yet.

I guess the 30 year old i3 with the original owner is plausible in 27 years time, but there are risks which may prevent it happening.

I had my last car 8 years - I'd be happy to get that from the i3

 

[ardandy]

Quite a lot of my miles are powered by my own energy. It's called cycling!

You're not zero emisson though! Especially after a curry!

 

[Trick Cyclist]

I would not be satisfied with 8 years with my i3 because I expect it is about then that I will replace the battery - at a cost above the worth of the car, but less than buying a more up to date vehicle. Inevitably new vehicles will be more sophisticated/ higher spec by then [and probably relatively cheaper]. However my i3 does everything I want except journeys longer than 100 miles using the battery, and if I look after it [it's in a dehumidified garage], I have no reason to change.
Of course in 8 years time EV's with 300mile range may be commonplace & cheap. I am very wary of my ability to rationalise what I want to do anyway, which is why I am deliberately starting from a long term perspective of keeping the car - which I think is going to be the most beneficial [or least environmentally costly] thing to do.

 

[Jack]

If Telsa can make it viable on the Roadster which only had a run of 2,000 vehicles BMW should be able to offer warrantied battery upgrades.

I don't call over $30k viable, its clear Tesla don't really want to offer it (I am sure I saw a picture of a refit invoice with very little change out of $40k). 3rd party's may offer packs, but to be brutally honest given the choice between a expensive new battery, or a "cheap" new car they would nearly always go for the cheap new car.

Its nice to think there are some altruists amongst us, but when the cards are on the table...

I strongly suspect that current models with the REX will have a relatively long life, the BEVs not so much. My guess would be BMW bring them back in-house and recycle them but we are probably talking decades out.

I do think BMW will allow upgrading, but the packs will be priced like Tesla have with the Roadster, such that you would have to have more money than sense to seriously consider it.