Great - so the stickers have gone up to say that all of the closest EV bays to my office are now reserved for charging vehicles only. (I wonder if CM gleefully offered to put the stickers up for the council)
From Sara Bailey's letter to Paul, it would appear these reserved bays were selected as being the highest used. So basically, the bays in close proximity to me were selected as special charging only bays because I regularly used to charge there! So the selection policy will now make only the least convenient bays to the regular EV commuters available to them without the charging requirement. Another wonderful irony of MKs pro-EV strategy!
So that means you can only park there if actually plugged in and charging, yes?
TBH, Chargemaster costs aside, the whole MK parking thing is a total mess. I can't actually remember if I'm allowed to park for free in the EV bays as there's no signage to say I can. Thankfully, I only rarely need to visit the centre so it's not a big deal - the last time I visited I did pay because I wasn't sure and didn't want to risk a fine.
I just stopped coming to MK because of the whole ChargeMaster debacle, I goto Peterborough (which is becoming very EV friendly in its car parks) for shopping when its an absolute must and there are no other options
That's right - any bays where you see 'RESERVED' stickers on the posts have the new requirement to be plugged in and charging. The small print on the sticker says something like 'you may be liable for a fine if you are not charging'. The MK parking map hasn't yet been updated to distinguish between the restricted and unrestricted parking so it has been a case of driving round to find an unrestricted bay.
I have no intention of supporting CM by applying for a card, so given the inconvenience of the nearest unrestricted bays, I now need to look either at the green car permit @ £75pa or reapply for my carshare permit which I used to use in my ICE. That gives me access to much more convenient parking spaces. So effectively, there is no value for my personal situation of driving the EV in compared to my previous ICE carshare, My Leaf trial comes to an end in November and I think I'll be handing it back rather than buying it.
That's right - any bays where you see 'RESERVED' stickers on the posts have the new requirement to be plugged in and charging. The small print on the sticker says something like 'you may be liable for a fine if you are not charging'. The MK parking map hasn't yet been updated to distinguish between the restricted and unrestricted parking so it has been a case of driving round to find an unrestricted bay.
You posted while I was posting. So what are we looking for for free EV parking (with no plug-in premium)? What colour/how big is the "reserved" sticker?
If I do have to go I tend to park in the shopping bit, my wife sometimes parks by the college building though.
Multistory is still free for all (by iceland/The Food Hall).
Thanks Paul - that map shows the EV bays, but not which have the new charging restrictions placed on them. The council website hasn;t yet been updated to explain the new restriction http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/streets-transport-and-parking/parking/electric-vehicle-charge-points
It was only the letter you received from Sara which hinted at the councils intentions which have now come to pass - under the usual cloud of confusion.
Hi Fenlander - yes, what I meant; was that for my particular case (daily commuter to MK within round trip single charge range), no part of MKs EV friendly policies are now of benefit to me. Of course the inherent benefits of EV remain. Over the trial, I have benefited from the free charging and parking, and as I use the vehicle almost exclusively for commuting (too many kids to fit in it for weekend use sadly) it has been great. With those advantages now gone, the benefits become much more marginal, and for me will probably not justify the upfront cost of buying the Leaf in Nov.
I'm appalled that MKC have pressed ahead with the "only if you're charging" policy, despite charging dropping off a cliff since the pricing on 1st April - barely 2 charges per day in MK at the moment, across the 150-170ish EV spaces. So now not only will the charging posts go unused, but also so will all those EV spaces.
I saw the CYC pricing - 15p/kWh - and thought it was brilliant. It's what the vast majority of users on this forum have been clamouring for: priced by actual fuel consumed (like petrol), and priced at a fair rate, significantly below the cost of petrol. I really hope that Chargemaster finally come out from their bunker, engage with us, say "we got it wrong", and move to sensible pricing, in a transparent model like CYC.
I've not seen figures - but you do see a lot of EVs in MK, and I am sure that it's status as an EV demonstration town has been a strong reason for that. The free charging and parking certainly influenced my decision.
I thought CM charged you for the time you were connected not just charging, so you would need to pay their silly prices all the time the cables plugged in
What is the average commute distance in MK? Do commuters really need to charge while at work?
I can understand providing charging for those who are on the limit of range to get to MK (occasional visitors/shoppers etc), but if it is possible to charge at home, why not?
You've still missed the point of the MK scheme Fenlander. MK were trying to saturate the market with charging posts, and EVs, to get the critical mass needed to make EV motoring viable for the masses. 170ish posts is a vast number for the size of the city centre, and a lot of the reason for them was to make it really convenient, and psychologically remove that fear of range anxiety. They were trying to make EV motoring "normal", and for some people that means brimming your "tank" at any opportunity so that you always have maximum range.
To have 170 posts, and only 2 or 3 charge sessions a day is just a massive waste of OLEV funding.
I think that is the Council's line of argument - it is still cheap compared to premium parking, and they are right, provided you are happy to fiddle with your charging time settings, and hope chargemaster's billing reflected actual charging time (can anyone confirm?)
However, for me and I'm guessing most of the Leafs I see in MK, we wouldn;t be paying for premium parking, the premium locations for me at least mean a good walk back to my office on the outskirts. In terms of reducing MKs carbon footprint, commuters are the most logical target. OLEVs focus is (semi-understandably) high visibility locations, whether or not convenient for those actually using the infrastructure, and MK council appear to be focusing on the out-of-town occasional EV visitors/shoppers at the expense of the majority who are EV commuters.
What is the average commute distance in MK? Do commuters really need to charge while at work?
I can understand providing charging for those who are on the limit of range to get to MK (occasional visitors/shoppers etc), but if it is possible to charge at home, why not?
Hmm. OK, this is probably derailing the argument somewhat but... many of the charge points in MK are often 'red lit' - indicating that for whatever reason, they're not working. At that point, is it ok for an EV to park there and not charge or does it revert to a standard parking space that anyone can use and should pay whatever the local going rate might be?
Not sure Stephanie. I was particularly disappointed a month ago to return to my usual broken post parking spot and find that CM had replaced it with a new working one. I think that sums up the stupidity of MKs whole EV infrastructure situation.
I imagine the rapid at J14 Coachway may get used, the one by the bus stations in CMK maybe, and the one by BMW because it's next to a BMW dealership. Aside from that the other ones I've never seen in use (not actually seen the others being used, just guessing) and 99% of the time are ICEd or ignored (they're in busy carparks, in shared parking spaced).
I've just had a fairly disappointing email from Sara Bailey @ MKCouncil. I'll quote:
"My understanding is that Charge Your Car is still heavily subsidised, and as you know MKC wanted to move away from this" - in response to my observation that CYC seem able to supply electricity for 15p/kWh vs CM's 45p/kWh.
"I don't think it's overly relevant to compare the cost of petrol with public charging, it should be compared against home charging, as going forward, this will always be the cheapest option"
"We have only made 1/3 of the EV stock [parking spaces] 'only available when charging' to avoid the empty bay situation you have described. The feedback I have received has been positive, insofar as those that are dependent upon charging now have a much better chance of accessing a charge point. It would not be good to have all of the bays full of EVs but not charging as this doesn't help the EV that needs to charge".
I wouldn't normally publish a private email exchange, but I'm so disappointed that the one person at MKC who's always been really proactive and pro-EV seems to be so wide of the mark.
I've responded and said that:
1) I wasn't sure the CYC 15p is subsidised - can anyone confirm?
2) I think comparing petrol with on-street charging is very relevant - as those of us with PHEVs will be making that exact comparison for every journey we make where we don't begin it from home, and ICE drivers considering switching to EVs will also make that comparison
3) 1/3 of 170 spaces will be around 60 spaces. There are only 2-3 charging sessions per day in MK, so that's 57ish spaces blocked out for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
I thinkt that's massively disappointing, but only seems to confirm that MK Council wish to completely wash their hands of the whole thing - which is absurd as they obviously get some kudos for being a Plugged In Place (but their attitude brings the whole scheme into disrepute, IMO).
I've no idea if the CYC 15p is subsidised - by who and where? CYC have always indicated that they only charge the price set by the landowner/charger owner. Does that mean that York council are subsisiding the scheme? (Is there a way of finding this out?)
Have you addressed the point, with her, that usage of the chargers has massively dropped since their introduction, and do MK Council have any interest in that?
What "feedback" is she getting? That indicates people are using the chargers (which goes against what we see from the statistics). Unless, of course, it is council vehicles making use of them, in which case of course she'll get good feedback!
"I don't think it's overly relevant to compare the cost of petrol with public charging, it should be compared against home charging, as going forward, this will always be the cheapest option"
So should we compare it against fuelling a vehicle (which is exactly what it is) or against a home charge (which would make the CM rates look FAR worse than comparing to diesel/petrol)?! Either way CM/MK rates looks nasty.
"We have only made 1/3 of the EV stock [parking spaces] 'only available when charging' to avoid the empty bay situation you have described.
So rather than leave the carrot there for EV drivers of free park and charge, and have a stick for non-EV drivers to keep out (enforced parking restrictions, tickets) they take away the carrot from EV drivers and replace it with a stick that if you don't pay to charge you can get a ticket. Who in their right mind comes to the conclusion this is a good way to encourage EVs and protect their charging facilities.
This move is very transparent. Nobody is paying for charging not because they can't park (ICEing has improved a lot recently I find) it's because they're charging too much. However, rather than admit to and address this, MK Council are effectively working with Chargemaster to try and force a certain level of usage. I don't think this will work either.
Sara and co. either can't see this (crazy, upsetting) or are complicit in making it so (weird, disappointing).
Oh it makes me mad that the taxpayer has put so much into this true omnishambles!
The waste was installing so many chargers with no viable business model. Why not experiment with a few before nailing them into the ground like traffic cones?
Maybe one way out of this mess would be for MK council to subsidise a handful of chargers - keep them pay-for, but at a rate that means they are only used by people that really do need them, and so few that the costs can be kept under control. They could even put them on the CYC network
I'm not quite so keen on handing the energy companies another monopoly to play with, but separating the management from the retail side is a good thing.
We absolutely are not subsidised, we're a 100% private company. Posts are owned by the hosts and hosts pay their own Electricity bill.
I really don't want to comment on other schemes and EV projects, the whole network is fractured enough without us popping in cheap digs at one another. But I would like to make clear that the York tariff (as with ALL our tariffs) was set by the host owner. Whilst we'd like to take the credit for it, we absolutely can't - It's all York CC.
That's great info @CYC - thank you for clarifying. Are you able to let us know if you think York CC are subsidising that retail price, or is that beyond your powers of guesswork?
Is it worth contacting The Parks Trust and having serious talks about their parking spaces and ZeroNet / CYC or others? Could be a viable alternative to the MK / Chargemaster monopoly?
As in that's what they pay for the lekky? I've no idea I'm afraid. But I would imagine it isn't subsidised and is pretty much just a 'cost covering' amount.
Also worth pointing out that the rep at York CC who manages their infrastructure is an avid EV driver and monitors these forums (though I've no idea if he has an account) Their previous rate was 'per hour' and I imagine the views expressed on here were a factor in moving over to 'per kWh'
Also worth pointing out that the rep at York CC who manages their infrastructure is an avid EV driver and monitors these forums (though I've no idea if he has an account)
I've chatted to him about it for you and he's come back with the following
'I did a huge amount of research, analysis and careful consultation with EV and non-EV drivers to arrive at the eventual PAYG solution.
As well as analysing in depth a host of user data from rapid chargers across the UK I used multi component analysis to select the optimum payment system and charging tariff against the strategic objectives of:
1 Provide charging costs which would be attractive for both EV and prospective EV users, comparing favourably to petrol/diesel
2 Provide simplicity and ease of comprehension
3 Be considered fair and popular among EV users
4 Achieve good usage rates
5 Allow the standard/rapid charger network to work holistically across the city
6 Cover costs
7 Minimise unintended consequences e.g. users charging at rapid chargers rather than using home chargers overnight (which can happen where electricity is supplied for free)
Payment per minute at rapid chargers also scored highly but the tipping point was the ability to put the standard chargers on the same kWh rate, solving some of the issues that an hourly tariff has, working holistically as a network, and creating simplicity of communication and clarity for both users and prospective users.
That is the theory at least - the proof will be in the effect this has on EV charging point usage and the increased rate of transition to EVs among the road users of the area.
Every charge point host will ultimately need to work out what is right for them given their own objectives'
Just done! ... she may be less communicative since my last response though - I was a bit pissy about her "don't compare petrol with EV charging" comment
Please do also make contact - I've had a good rapport with her until today, but she really pissed me off earlier!
Iain Stewart is our MP for MK South. I've had a very brief email exchange with him about the situation, and he seems willing to get involved - could we possibly co-ordinate some form of letter/collection of opinions/petition or something that I could share with him...?
Iain Stewart is our MP for MK South. I've had a very brief email exchange with him about the situation, and he seems willing to get involved - could we possibly co-ordinate some form of letter/collection of opinions/petition or something that I could share with him...?
I think we should get the MP involved - though I don't know if he can take into account the opinions of people who are not in his constituency (some sort or Parliamentary rule).
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