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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry for the long post but it may be of interest to some and possibly an answer to others.

This is on a charger managed by Charge Place Scotland.

I’ve come across this issue and raised it with CPS but wondering if anyone else has experienced it.

When using the CCS on a Siemens charger the rate is dropping from 43 kW to 22 kW and on the first occasion last week dropped to 15 kW.

The process is:-
Arrive at the charger and the screen is at the ‘Standby’ screen telling you to present you card.
Hold that card against the reader and the screen changes to the ‘Charge selection type’ screen’
Go through the process of initiating the charge and the screen will change to the ‘Info’ screen details showing the duration, power consumed and the battery % state of charge. The 3 will also show the charge rate and time to end on its screen.
After a short time the screen on the charger will revert to the ‘Standby’ screen. At this point the rate of charge, according to the car, drops to 22 kW and time to reach full charge increases. On presenting the card again to the reader the screen will change to the ‘Info’ screen and the charge rate according to the car will ramp back up to 43 kW. The cycle will continue until the car is full.

The first time it happened CPS rebooted the machine as it was only giving 15 kW but as it was raining I sat in the car as soon as the charge started so did not tie up the drop in charge with the charger's screen going to 'Standby'.
 

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Hi Ian. I was about to start a new thread when I saw your post. I think this might add to your point but if it feels a bit like a high-jack, please let me know and I will move it elsewhere.

My point is I have found several local rapid chargers on Charge Place Scotland (CPS) that intermittently either do not work with my Model 3 or keep dropping.

As background ... I am fortunate to have two rapid CCS chargers five miles to the north of home and a further two CCS chargers six miles to the south. All of these are older E-Volt - some older than others. In addition, I also have a brand new E-Volt very modern looking CCS charger just installed not far from the two to the south of me (outside a new Council depot). I used all four of the older ones several times a week over the last 12 months with my e-Golf - 19k miles in the year. I also used the new charger a few times before I replaced my e-Golf with a Model 3 two weeks ago. Since then I frequently receive a 'CCS Error' message on the chargers when trying to connect. Sometimes I can successfully start a charge and get 40+ kw on three of the older chargers (and the new one) but only 20K on the fourth. Then after about 10 mins the connection will often, but not always, drop (with the 'CCS Error' message) and I start all over again. No apparent pattern.

I call the CPS helpline on each occasion (anybody, everybody, somebody, nobody approach lol) and they are helpful, often rebooting the charger (sometimes helps, sometimes no difference) or advising me where they have already placed a service call with an engineer. On the last occasion the helpdesk said that they are beginning to notice a new trend, with this error message often showing for Model 3s.

It reminded me of the problems with CCS chargers when the Kona (?) was first introduced. I think those issues were resolved by updated softwear or firmware on the chargers. I'm not certain that I have that entirely correct so I'm open to being put straight!

It made me wonder if others are experiencing any difficulties? I'm not sure if my experience helps or hinders you, Ian? Sorry, but none of the chargers are Siemens.
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #3
No problem in adding in comments. I have had the same issue with the EVOLTs dropping the CCS, sometimes within a couple of minutes others up to 20 minutes or so. In fact the last time was at Kinross (two rapids) and I was in one and a Zoe pulled in alongside me to charge (not sure what it uses) and mine dropped, the connections on the other rapid were all free. I put it down to the cable being moved and losing the 'comms/handshake' connection. I have read on here to lift the back of the plug slightly upwards when starting to ensure the comms pins have a good connection. I did phone CPS about it the first time it happened and was told there was a firmware update needed for the Model 3 and to contact Tesla, the car was only days old and I would have expected it to be up to date.
 

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It would surprise me if the real issue was down to the cars. When a lot of these chargers were developed there weren't many cars capable of sustained charging at over 50KW, and while you'd hope plenty of dummy load testing was done, I've worked in industry long enough to know that's not always the case. So any over protective safety features or thermal management issues wouldn't rear their heads until the newer range of cars start requesting more and more current from a device that's used to kicking out a max current for about 10 minutes tops.
Can you throttle the charge current on CCS like you can with the granny lead? It may be worth testing something like setting the max charging current to 35KW and see if it still drops.
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #5
You can't turn down the charge on DC, well not that I have found anyway, that option on the car screen is not available in the way that it is when charging at home or on a destination charger using your own cable when the amps can be ramped up or down. I can't recall if you can turn down the rate if you are using the type 2 cable on the rapid.
 

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Yesterday out of interest I plugged in the AC, when the CCS would not work. It came in at 20 kw (from memory) and was stable for the five minutes before I went home.

I too had the ‘get Tesla to update your car’ message. CPS said I needed an update to v9. I explained that I was already running the updated v10 and they said it shouldn’t then be the car. That was what made me think of the Kona saga.
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #7
I can't recall seeing a rate when I used the type 2 on the rapid from within the car and the display on the unit was out of sight. This was before I stumbled upon the rapid's screen display dropping the rate on CCS.
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #9
That's what I thought but not too sure to comment. I think both CCS and Type 2 will give you mph but only CCS gives you the rate. It may be that the type 2 will give you the amps, I will need to check next time I am at that particular rapid.
 

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42k miles on public charging. Am I an expert yet?
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Ah, perhaps it was 20 mph rather than 20 kw. Oops! Thinking about it, that would make sense given type 2 has a max (11 kw?).
The Type 2 supply can provide 43kW but the car wouldn't be able to take that.

Model S and X can take 16kW over AC, I'd have thought the 3 would either be the same - Tesla have their 22kW destination charger network and they surely don't want a bunch of M3's clogging it up!
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #11
The Type 2 supply can provide 43kW but the car wouldn't be able to take that.

Model S and X can take 16kW over AC, I'd have thought the 3 would either be the same - Tesla have their 22kW destination charger network and they surely don't want a bunch of M3's clogging it up!
Would their destination chargers be compatible with the CCS on the 3? I thought it was only the SCs that were being upgraded but could very well be wrong. But thinking about this that would be daft not to upgrade them but maybe not the same urgency.
 

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Would their destination chargers be compatible with the CCS on the 3? I thought it was only the SCs that were being upgraded but could very well be wrong. But thinking about this that would be daft not to upgrade them but maybe not the same urgency.
Destination chargers are AC and therefore there is no requirement for CCS plugs, the Type2 destination charger plug will work fine on any Tesla.
 

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Model S and X can take 16kW over AC, I'd have thought the 3 would either be the same - Vroom have their 22kW destination charger network and they surely don't want a bunch of M3's clogging it up!
Why not?
Since it's AC you can even adjust it down to 5Amp / 1kW if you wanted to.

Remember that destination chargers are run by the owners who installed them and not Vroom, this is also why you will find Vroom (Red) + non-Vroom (White) destination chargers at such venues.
 

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I had the same experience today as the original poster, on a Siemen’s rapid charger at Halbeath P&R. Stood by the charger taping my RFID card on the reader every minute or so when the display screen went into screensaver mode. I got 42 to 49 kw before it dropped to 22 kw each time the screensaver cut in. I called Charge Place Scotland who said they couldn’t call an engineer until someone else also reported the fault. Any other takers?
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Discussion Starter #15
That was me and I was wondering where there might be another Siemens unit to try and check if it was the charger or the car. I was trying the one at Stirling Castleview P&R. Just checked my account and it was on the 23rd October that I had the issues and spoke with Danny on the helpline. All he could say was that there had been successful full rate charges earlier on in the day.
 

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That was me and I was wondering where there might be another Siemens unit to try and check if it was the charger or the car. I was trying the one at Stirling Castleview P&R. Just checked my account and it was on the 23rd October that I had the issues and spoke with Danny on the helpline. All he could say was that there had been successful full rate charges earlier on in the day.
Thank you. I’ll try and go to Stirling one day next week to try it. There is only the one Siemen’s at Halbeath. It is in the middle of the car park, clearly sign posted.
 

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Model S and X can take 16kW over AC, I'd have thought the 3 would either be the same - Tesla have their 22kW destination charger network and they surely don't want a bunch of M3's clogging it up!
The Model 3 is max 11kW (16A x 3) and it is ironic that our Zoe charges twice as fast on unlocked 22kW Tesla destination charging points.

Maybe at some point we will see Tesla offer an option for higher AC charging, like they did in early days of Model S.
 

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42k miles on public charging. Am I an expert yet?
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The Model 3 is max 11kW (16A x 3) and it is ironic that our Zoe charges twice as fast on unlocked 22kW Tesla destination charging points.

Maybe at some point we will see Tesla offer an option for higher AC charging, like they did in early days of Model S.
Doubtful, anything faster than 11kW is DC nowadays - the Zoe is just about the only model left that'll do 22kW AC. It's why I think Pod Point are so foolish in their constant pursuit to install 22kW AC instead of DC chargers.
 
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