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Discussion Starter #1
We've had our Model 3 for a few weeks now. While we knew range in winter would be affected, I have to admit it has taken me by surprise at how much.

Some of our journeys seems to use nearly double the range than the actual miles for the trip.

It's less of an issue when we have a planned long journey as we can/the car can plan a stop.

But for more spontaneous trips it can be a little more concerning. Like this evening where I had to pick my dad up - the return journey was just 56 miles. I had a 113 miles range... easy!

I've just returned home with 26 miles. Now I could understand some leeway due to weather or even my driving but to use up over 80 miles seems crazy. Or at least misleading.

I'm beginning to wonder if the range prediction isn't that accurate really.

Not moaning... I love the car but just keen to know if anyone else has this same experience?
 

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Hi. When you say range prediction, do you mean the figure from the Energy screen or the figure in the top right corner next to the battery icon?
 

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I agree, seems to be off for me at the minute. I have lost more miles than expected and when parked up overnight. Zoe seems to be the opposite. Gains miles when parked up. Get out with 40 miles get in with 45 showing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi. When you say range prediction, do you mean the figure from the Energy screen or the figure in the top right corner next to the battery icon?
Let me guess, the short ones?

Are you comparing range on the dash or on the energy prediction chart?
I wouldn't say they were short journeys really. Just surprised at how much more it's using.

Definitely the range on the dash. I have a good guess of what you're going to tell me about the energy prediction chart, but tell me anyway ?
 

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Well the range on the dash is just rated range. So doesn’t take into account the conditions - it’s a fixed number relative to SOC.

The chart takes into account elevation, temperature and likely speed. Usually this is quite accurate.

Hence why it’s best to stick the dash display on ‘Energy’ not ‘Miles’.
 

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I’ve had my m3 long range since the end of August. I’ve now done around 6200 miles, which has been made up of short commutes and long road trips from one side of the country to another. Now the temperature has dropped, as expected range has dropped off. The hvac system is the biggest impact on the range. It seems to reduce the range on my car by nearly 30% when on auto climate set to 22 degrees. I generally heat the cabin before starting a journey, then when driving just have the heated seat on full and the hvac off. I only put it on every so often to demist the screen. On longer journey range improves when tyres are warm and battery is at optimum temperature. Sentry mode whilst recent software updates have improved efficiency, it still has a impact on range.
 

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I could have sworn some of the Tesla faithful were insisting that the lack of a heat pump on the Model 3 wouldn't be an issue in winter... yet ~30% loss in range sounds exactly like what I see on a Peugeot Ion also without a heat pump.

I still can't understand why Tesla opted to remain without a heat pump in the Model 3 when it makes such a difference in other EV's.
 

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I could have sworn some of the Tesla faithful were insisting that the lack of a heat pump on the Model 3 wouldn't be an issue in winter... yet ~30% loss in range sounds exactly like what I see on a Peugeot Ion also without a heat pump.

I still can't understand why Tesla opted to remain without a heat pump in the Model 3 when it makes such a difference in other EV's.
Heat pump would work actually pretty well in UK conditions as winter temperatures rarely drop below zero.
For many other markets where heating is important - temperatures are typicaly well below zero, and in such conditions heat pumps are not more efficient than resistive heating (sometimes even less).
It's an choice for manufacurer: add a heat pump that works well only in mild weather, or for the same money put a bit bigger battery, or make car cheaper....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks, I'll try to refer to the energy chart more often.

Although, I would still say the navigation is not wholly accurate. I use it constantly to make sure I never run out but it always over estimates how much percentage energy I will have at the end.

I'll live with it because everything else on the car more than makes up for this shortfall.
 

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Have you tried abetterrouteplanner.com?
You can login to your car and use accurate data when planning a road trip. This for me works best. Once the route is planned, it can then be sent to the cars navigation.
 

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Heat pump would work actually pretty well in UK conditions as winter temperatures rarely drop below zero.
For many other markets where heating is important - temperatures are typicaly well below zero, and in such conditions heat pumps are not more efficient than resistive heating (sometimes even less).
It's an choice for manufacurer: add a heat pump that works well only in mild weather, or for the same money put a bit bigger battery, or make car cheaper....
It's a common myth that heat pumps don't work below 0C. Heat pumps work well significantly below 0C. Coeffient of performance drops off somewhat yes, you're not going to get a COP of 3, but it's still more efficient than a resistance heater down to at least -10C - which covers the majority of UK winters. Check out the COP graph of a typical air source heat pump.

Also you can put a resistance heater before the heat pump to "pre-heat" the air entering the heat pump. This is more efficient at low temperatures than using the resistance heater alone or putting the resistance heater after a heat pump.

If you put it after the heat pump you only raise the temperature of the air in proportion to the heat output of resistance heater but the COP of the heat pump is not improved. If you put a resistance heater in front of a heat pump to raise the incomming air temperature a bit you add both additional heat in proportion to the power of the resistance heater and improve the COP of the heat pump. Therefore total heat added is more than the power put into the resistance heater.

I would be surprised if EV's with heat pumps don't already have a resistance heater in front of the heat pump which is selectively activated at low temperatures to improve the COP of the heat pump and give it a helping hand while still being more efficient overall than a resistance heater alone.

I still think it's disapointing that Tesla have opted not to include a heat pump even as an option.
 

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My experience (3.5 months, 4300 miles, SR+) is that the "departure tax" in the model 3 is severe, but also that getting the battery to its optimum can take a lot longer than people realise.

I set out from rural Gloucestershire where the car had cold-soaked for 2 nights outdoors in freezing temperatures. 70% SoC. The snowflake symbol was on the display next to the battery, and Power was limited and regen almost non-existant. Full regen did not become available until more than 70 miles into the journey. At 90 miles I pulled into keele and supercharged, having averaged around 300Wh/mi up to that point (including plenty of 50 limit through roadworks). Charge went straight to 100kW. After the charge stop despite higher speeds (75 indicated where possible, and the cut/thrust of the M60) I returned home(another 60 miles on from keele) at an average of 266Wh/mi.

I think that the model 3 is optimised more for high-speed and long-distance efficiency rather than short-journey efficiency. When I first set out from keele on the above journey I covered 16.5 miles in 15 minutes (including time getting out of the services) at 255 Wh/mi in 6C ambients - and my car does not have the aero covers on and has mudflaps fitted (additional drag). I think the UK winter climate of cold (but not freezing), windy and wet is the worst-case scenario for the model 3 because the wet saps heat from things very quickly, as compared to sub-zero temperatures where the air is dry, and inland places (like germany) where there is generally less wind. It's also the ideal climate for a heat pump to perform well.

The question is does it NEED to be super-optimised for short-journey efficiency? In the Leaf 24 where after a year or two you have less than 20kWh usable battery capacity then you absolutely do optimise for that, as short journeys are its bread and butter. In the Tesla any short journey is easily within capability regardless of efficiency, and the efficiency comes up on long journeys where it is really needed.
 

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Mine isn't the loss of range when driving it's more the vampire drain when not using it.since charging Tuesday morning and to work and back I've lost about 40 miles just parking up, not driving.
Have you got the blue frost symbol next to the battery icon? This "hides" some of your range due to the battery being cold but you'll get some of it back if you drive as the battery warms up.
 

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The Model 3 uses the rear motor to generate heat - up to about 4kW apparently. It is a very clever system.

Waste heat from the powertrain can be used when the car is moving, but Tesla designed a thermal controller for Model 3 that can also use heat from the powertrain even when the vehicle is parked, like at a Supercharger for example, which is important since the charge rate drops if the battery pack is too cold.


Even when parked, Tesla’s software can send a request to the powertrain inverter to start powering up and pass the appropriate currents to the motor in order to produce enough heat to warm the cells – all while not producing any torque so the Model 3 doesn’t move.


Tesla apparently judged the system efficient enough to not include an external battery pack heater in the Model 3 and replaced it virtually entirely through software.

 

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Have you got the blue frost symbol next to the battery icon? This "hides" some of your range due to the battery being cold but you'll get some of it back if you drive as the battery warms up.
No blue frost symbol. I'd say I'm averaging about 8-10 mile loss ever time I park up overnight, not including the 3 mile loss from getting to work and leaving it for 8 hours so around 13 miles loss over 24 hours per day. I have a 40 mile round trip to work and back.
 

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I've tried turning it off, turning it on, excluding home. Turning WiFi off, not looking at the app, turning Bluetooth off my phone. Not sure what else I can try. Just had the 2019. 40.2.1 update come through now as well. Its on charge up my drive now. Going to make some notes today on miles lost from 80% charge.
 
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