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I've tried turning it off, turning it on, excluding home. Turning WiFi off, not looking at the app, turning Bluetooth off my phone. Not sure what else I can try. Just had the 2019. 40.2.1 update come through now as well. Its on charge up my drive now. Going to make some notes today on miles lost from 80% charge.
Hi Neil,
I've had the same issues losing something like 27 miles a day (when idle). Last night I told the car to 'forget' wifi, I deleted the app from my phone, wife's phone & laptop so apart from LTE (internet) as far as I was concerned the car was shut off. This morning I started the car with the keycard and guess what? I still had the same miles in the tank as at 8pm last night.
You can hear if the car is asleep by listening beside the front wheel arches, just a faint whirring sound (fan or pump).
 

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From recent data using OBDII the dual motor model 3 definitely energises the front motor to 3.5kw to add heat to the system while driving as it's used leased and both motors while sat supercharging. In my single motor model 3 I've not seen the motor being energised when plugged into my home fast charger.

Having been monitoring the mid cell temp (assumed average battery pack temp) I can see the that in normal use the strategy is to slowly heat the pack by using a delta T of only about 1 deg for the "coolant" inlet so that's why it takes 10s of minutes to increase the battery pack in cold weather. You can force this a little by selecting a supercharger and enabling pre-conditioning which will increase the delta T to ~4 C.

My strategy now is to use standard/sport and exaggerate my acceleration and regen while driving for the first 3-4 miles to get energy moving through the pack. That seems to reduce that initial high usage when you start and has kept my consumption to below 300 wh/mi recently in cold wet weather. Had been creeping up to 320 wh/mi before that.

For some reference pack temp seems to be 20 C when the regen pips recede to under the N and by 22 C they should be completely gone. I'm not getting above 20 C most days myself after 30 mins mixed driving and starting from about 15 C after home charging.

This probably doesn't help the OP much though :)

 

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If the car is using more energy than expected, it’s usually because you are ‘enjoying’ it too much. ;)
 

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but it's still more efficient than a resistance heater down to at least -10C
But to start generating heat they first need a boost from a small resistive don't they? Certainly the Zoe does.

I think Tesla have err'd towards effectiveness rather than efficiency as they already have a big pack. In small pack EVs an efficient heater (at the expensive of effectiveness) is definitely necessary. MG have gone the resistive only route, presumably as a cost saving measure and owners have reported their heater being really effective, really quick, and less noisy than EVs they may have owned with a heatpump. Strangely they've also said the drop in range isn't as noticeable as they had expected.
 

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Need to do this test myself as seem to be charging ours an awful lot for the limited mileage we do. Don't use the Tesla App (Evezy car) and although sentry mode is enabled it's setup not to work at home where the car spends 90% of it's time when stationary.

Plan to charge to 95%+ at the local 50kW at some point over the weekend and will then keep a close eye on it from there.
 

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Need to do this test myself as seem to be charging ours an awful lot for the limited mileage we do. Don't use the Tesla App (Evezy car) and although sentry mode is enabled it's setup not to work at home where the car spends 90% of it's time when stationary.

Plan to charge to 95%+ at the local 50kW at some point over the weekend and will then keep a close eye on it from there.
I will report me test results in the morning.
 

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Need to do this test myself as seem to be charging ours an awful lot for the limited mileage we do.

(Evezy car)
As I understand it, the way that the Evezy app works causes the Model 3 not to be able to sleep properly and causes high vampire drain. In your case I suspect that this would be the cause of your issue.
 

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As I understand it, the way that the Evezy app works causes the Model 3 not to be able to sleep properly and causes high vampire drain. In your case I suspect that this would be the cause of your issue.
I was going to ask, but was afraid to. :)
 

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Here's the post with the details. Evezy app can cause 6% per 24 hours drain because it continually polls the vehicle. Use the sleep mode setting in the Evezy app to reduce this.
 

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So results from my daily drive. Charged to 60% showing 142miles. Precondition cabin so nice and warm.

Set of at 14.00 and raining. 6 degrees. Automatic wipers work much better with the update.

Arrived at work with 49% showing 116 miles. 260 wh/mi average. 20.5 miles driven. Lost 11% on the way to work.

Returned to car after 9 hours parked up. 6 degrees and just wet.
47% and 112 miles showing so lost 2% parked up. Set of after 23.00 returned home with 31% and 72 miles showing. 269 wh/mi and driven 31.5 miles home. Lost 16% on the journey home.

Total driven miles 52.

Parked up and forgot WiFi connection in car so it doesn't search for it, turned off heating and hopefully turned of sentry mode. Uninstall app from my phone as suggested.

Returned to car in the morning and used card key to get in. Range now shows 68 miles or 29% temp 6 degrees. 74 miles have been used for a 52 mile drive. Overall wh/mi is 312.

So to conclude I used 29% and drove a total of 52 miles. I lost 4% of this parked up from being at work and overnight. Start miles was 142, drove 52 miles and now shows 68 miles.

Any thoughts on this, is this about right for a 4% loss parked up??
 

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I agree, seems to be off for me at the minute. I have lost more miles than expected and when parked up overnight. Zoe seems to be the opposite. Gains miles when parked up. Get out with 40 miles get in with 45 showing.
Ditto! Parked the Zoe somewhere (not plugged in / charging) whilst shopping, came back and the car was happy to report more range, and then asked me if I want to save the chargepoint on the map?! The powers of the GOM.

Any thoughts on this, is this about right for a 4% loss parked up??
Completely normal
 

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4% being parked up is not normal, not if you want to go away for 2 weeks and leave your car at the airport in winter, I ose maybe 1% per day tops (albeit a MS and without sentry mode)
Ok but I'm sure sentry mode is off. Hate to think what it would be with it on. ? Some say it's normal some say it's not. To be honest it's seems more than it should. I can only compare to a Zoe at the minute.
 

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In both cases the battery went from warm to cold, which always reduces the shown %. If the car is left 1 night then it will lose 2% or so because of that. If it were left for 5 nights there's no further warm-cold transition loss and so it will lose 4-5% if left for 5 nights. The drop is front-weighted. Multiple warm-cold transitions (as occurs from using the car to commute) gives more apparent idle loss.

I've just checked my car - drove to work this morning, plugged in at 22% for 2 hours on an 11kW charger, got up to 66%. Unplugged at 10am and moved to a parking spot. 3 hours later it's now at 64% because the battery has gone cold. It will still be at 64% in another 3 hours when I go home.
 

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Ok but I'm sure sentry mode is off. Hate to think what it would be with it on. ? Some say it's normal some say it's not. To be honest it's seems more than it should. I can only compare to a Zoe at the minute.
The lack of the rain-sensor-neural-nets planning our demise as a civilization in the Zoe is definitely a bonus for its nonexistent vampire drain.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I guess I will just have to live with the drop off as I don't want to turn off sentry mode other than at home, and I want to use the heating freely too.

I hope to use the "depart at" feature more often so that helps warms the battery up but my understanding is this is causing conflict with smart charging.
 

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My experience (3.5 months, 4300 miles, SR+) is that the "departure tax" in the model 3 is severe, but also that getting the battery to its optimum can take a lot longer than people realise.

I set out from rural Gloucestershire where the car had cold-soaked for 2 nights outdoors in freezing temperatures. 70% SoC. The snowflake symbol was on the display next to the battery, and Power was limited and regen almost non-existant. Full regen did not become available until more than 70 miles into the journey. At 90 miles I pulled into keele and supercharged, having averaged around 300Wh/mi up to that point (including plenty of 50 limit through roadworks). Charge went straight to 100kW. After the charge stop despite higher speeds (75 indicated where possible, and the cut/thrust of the M60) I returned home(another 60 miles on from keele) at an average of 266Wh/mi.
Cold soak of the battery over multiple days in winter is a problem for all EV's. Battery thermal mass is high and batteries are fairly well insulated from the elements when the car is parked (and especially from a cold clear night sky, which causes most heat loss from a car over night) so if you drive the car every day the use keeps the cells considerably above ambient temperatures.

For example I find on my Ion that I can have a -5C clear night in winter but because the car was driven the previous day and then put on charge in the evening (which also continues to warm the cells for many hours) the cell temperatures in the morning are still around 10-15C above ambient and this really helps minimise losses.

However if I let it sit for the entire weekend without use the cells can fall much closer to ambient and then the cold battery depature tax can bite a lot harder, especially as it has no battery heater of any sort.
The question is does it NEED to be super-optimised for short-journey efficiency? In the Leaf 24 where after a year or two you have less than 20kWh usable battery capacity then you absolutely do optimise for that, as short journeys are its bread and butter. In the Tesla any short journey is easily within capability regardless of efficiency, and the efficiency comes up on long journeys where it is really needed.
I have a few thoughts on that...

1) If you don't have a heat pump you're still leaving performance on the table especially in a UK climate. The Model 3 is already a very efficient car (especially at speed) but the winter performance is still beaten by the likes of the Ioniq, and the reason is probably in good part the lack of a heat pump. Why leave performance on the table for a marginal cost saving, especially if you're trying to build or maintain the reputation of being the company that makes the best EV's around ? At least make it a buyer selectable option and see if buyers go for it or not. I suspect the constant drive to meet the fabled $35k target is ultimately what caused the heat pump to be axed as "non essential", not because it wasn't worth it or because there were technical challenges in fitting it into the design.

2) Short journey efficiency does matter - for anyone who does not have at home charging and will be forced to follow the ICE weekly "fill up" model. One reason to buy an EV with as long a range as a long range Model 3 is that you could charge once a week and commute for a week using it, without having at home charging. And lets face it, a lot of people don't and can't have at home charging, yet will eventually be forced to drive EV's.

These (EV Naive) people might reasonably expect that they could achieve say 250 miles of range while doing five 40 mile a day commute trips each week. If the winter depature tax is very high due to lack of AC assisted pre-heating (no home charger) and lack of a heat pump to get the cabin warmed up efficiently, they're going to be disapointed by the range they actually do get. Something with a heat pump that could even share the heat pump output to heat the battery is going to fare far better here in the many shorter trips from one charge scenario, and I think this is going to be a very common scenario.

3) Even if you have a lot of range available, if the penalty in terms of percentage range loss is high due to heater use it's inevitably going to cause you to be miserly with the heater. Or plan two alternative charging stop scenarios if you're not sure whether you're going to need to use the heater much or not on a given journey. Sometimes the required heater use is quite unpredictable.

As the driver of a short range EV with no heat pump I find it an extreme chore to have to balance range against heater use in my on-trip mental calculations. A heat pump reduces the penalty to the point where its significant but not huge, and is much closer to the care free use of a heater in an ICE. And for that reason I've made it a priority to choose an EV with a heat pump - regardless of what battery size it may have - as my next purchase.

Sure, a Model 3 has a huge summer range so heater or not I would have loads of range left at the end of a day and I can charge at home. So the lack of a heat pump would not affect me on commuting or short trips. However as soon as I started planning long trips that would require charging I then have two significantly different "ranges" to consider when thinking about charging stops... a no heater range and a heater range that are considerably different.

So the same issue returns, just for longer trips. With the heat pump the penalty can be (theoretically) only about 1/3rd as much and be small enough that the extra consumption of having to use the heater unexpectedly on a longer trip is not going to cause you to have to reconsider your charging stops as it will be small enough to be taken care of by the safety buffer you already included.
 
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