[Edd Beesley]

Agree but so does every manufacturer who quotes that, it's done at steady speed (55 I think) with no aircon, very unrealistic. Same with nissan quoting over 100 for the leaf.

NEDC for current leaf is 124 miles...!

 

[Edd Beesley]

Interested to hear what you find Kevin!

 

[Edd Beesley]

I couldn't get 120 miles out of my p70. Tesla wouldn't admit the car was at fault and I had to replace it after 6 weeks of use. I sent Tesla a complaint as I took a fair financial hit when I traded it in against a Volvo; had a response from Georg Ell stating that on a journey where I'd travelled 118 miles after a full charge arriving with 4 claimed miles left was normal as id driven at speeds between 70 and 80 for 20 minutes of the journey. For the majority of the journey I was travelling at under 60mph (as the car had warned me I wouldn't reach my destination unless I slowed to sub 60) with the heating completely off. Before I traded the car in I explained to Tesla that in my case the car wasn't fit for purpose and Id asked if they'd sell it on my behalf through their used portal to minimise my losses, they told me my only option was to sell it privately or trade it in and take the hit.

Looking at all of the previous posts I admit it looks like my car may have been the problem rather than a general issue with Teslas range claims, but in my case Tesla were unwilling to admit the car was at fault or assist in any way.

I've now got a Volvo v60 hybrid which I'm delighted with, it's claimed range on a charge is 30 miles, it consistently manages 28 which covers my daily commute and for the longer journeys I can fall back to the Diesel engine when the battery runs out.

Quote from email sent by georg ell of tesla in response to my range complaint (this was in relation to the second stage of a 230 mile journey following a 70 minute session at their Gretna supercharger):

The second part of the journey also consisted, in part, of 22 mins of driving between 75 and 80 mph. The car used 163 miles of ‘typical’ range and travelled 118 miles. Given this prolonged period of high speed driving, it is sensible to assume this is normal operation.

Happy to share the entire email if you send over details: [email protected]

I don't think there's such a car as a P70? And is 70 minutes at a supercharger enough to actually get a 100% charge? Don't you have to put the car in range mode to go to 100%?

 

[Edd Beesley]

@Lee Jones I'm surprised and a little shocked by that. As you know I did a 100% to 0% run and got 190 miles out of my 60 on fairly mixed driving. (Ok I had no buffer and wouldn't recommend it, but as an exercise in seeing what was possible it was interesting.)

Admittedly I did have range mode on, and had turned the A/C to manual fan control, but even so... I would also suggest 366 is high if you are doing a long run at 70 mph in decent conditions.

As for the NEDC it is a joke, the EPA figure is far more accurate, though not perfect.

The slight problem I have with the EPA rating (and this is more of a problem here in the UK) is that there is a specific loophole in the 5 point testing programme, which I feel Tesla are using to their advantage.

Basically when the tests got changed by the EPA, to avoid a load of retesting, manufacturers could still use the old 3 point test figures, and in lieu of actually performing the 2 additional results for cold and aggressive driving cycles they are allowed to apply a "correction factor" to the existing results (IIRC it's as simple as multiplying the figures by 0.7).

We know EV's are far more impacted by cold weather than ICE's, and I suspect this aspect is masked somewhat by the approach Tesla have taken in producing their 5 cycle EPA range figures.

and can they use the "general label" rule with the Model 3 (if it has the "same" drivetrain as the Model S they can re-use numbers)?

 

[Edd Beesley]

The Tesla graph shows 75 mins (of course this depends on the supercharger in question as they vary so much - ie this graph was clearly not measured at South Mimms or Tankersley Manor)
View attachment 10914
The other point that seems to be missing from this thread is that I saw a significant difference in wh.mile between 70 and 80 mph The real world measurements I did out on the Norfolk Fens on a calm day in January with my 90 kWh battery (assuming 85.9 available) show the massive drop off in range between the two speeds
View attachment 10915

Gosh that is a big dropoff. I've gotten pretty used to travelling at an indicated 60mph in the Leaf when on a trip (56mph by GPS) so it looks like for me a 90kwh car would get me 260-290 miles.

 

[Edd Beesley]

@Royz, what was the ambient temp?

On my science experiment run, I was seeing c. 300Wh/mi during the 70mph portion, which was not flat, but did included going both directions along the A1 to counter wind and elevation effects.

Interesting. I guess your car must be a good 150kgs lighter though?

 

[Edd Beesley]

Certainly need more than an hour for 100% (from empty) but it doesn't need to be in range mode.
I'm sure it would be possible to get that sort of range with the wrong weather and/or driving style.

Ah but do you need to move the charge level slider out of the "daily" zone and into the "trip" zone?

 

[Edd Beesley]

Ed - sorry unsure why I refer to it as the P70, it was the rear wheel drive 70kwh model S, I believe range extend mode limited the amount of energy that could be used by the climate control system, when I said 100% I was referring to the maximum recommended charge level (which I believe was set to 90% of the overall batteries capacity), to be clear it took around 70 minutes to fill the battery from almost empty to its capped full capacity - around 90% of its overall capacity....

Graham - your welcome to your opinion on the V60, however, it fits my needs perfectly. My daily commute is around 28 miles each way which makes up around 60 - 70% of my overall annual milage, for the most part its restricted to 50mph as its a busy A road congested with HGVs. I charge the car overnight at home and charge it while I'm at work, I'm managing to commute almost entirely on electricity. The Volvo running on battery alone in pure mode is more than capable of the acceleration I need for the work run. If going on a longer journey I leave the car in hybrid mode and the diesel engine fires up when needed, when it does fire up the car accelerates pretty much as quickly as my model S did, I'd go as far as saying from 50 - 80 the Volvo feels quicker - this is mainly ICE though.

Overall Im not slating the model S, going by the other posts it looks although many owners are happy with them, Im just trying to add some balance - I lost a fair amount of money because I bought into the range (as calculated by the range calculator on their site) and cost savings claims.

When I researched the car most reviews stated that the range wasn't far off claimed, however, most of the reviewers were posting from warm parts of the USA where the batteries overall efficiency will be far better.

If the car was capable of anywhere near a range of 200 miles consistently I'd still have it but the thought of running out of power on the motorway with the family in the car gave me the fear, in all of the sample routes I looked at before ordering the car I worked out I could live with it so long as it had a real world range of 160 miles, theres no way at the time of year I had that car it was capable of 160 miles.... ever..... I'll say it again, theres every chance it was a fault with the car, although Tesla claimed the car was fine. Buying a car with a claimed range of 250 miles, I thought Id be reasonably safe with an expectation of 160 miles.

Before everyone starts chipping in that I must have been driving it like a boy racer, it just didn't happen! If I remember correctly I gave it some welly on one journey but generally I'd stick to speed limits + - 15%.

Before the car arrived I was on here every day looking at everyones progress in the model S delivery thread that was running between Oct and Dec and the spreadsheet that was published; I was really really bought into this - I didn't change my mind because of the poor quality of the interior or the sharp angles on the retracting door handles / rear view mirrors that my kids hurt themselves on a couple times, I was willing to put up with a load of the minor shortfalls given the cars eco creds and safety features however I worked out if I were to attempt to take on a 400 mile run charging for 40 mins every 100 miles restricting my speed to 60mph it would take around 10 hours. I could get stuck into some EPO and cycle that distance in 13

It's important to hear the good and the bad so thanks for sticking around to tell us what happened.

I think Tesla could be more honest with the range calculator on their website, I don't think it went over 65mph last time I checked, and I don't think it has a modifier for "wet" and "windy", which also make a big difference. More than that though, at some point during your order process someone should have listened to your desire to travel 150+ miles, on a 90% charge, in winter, at 70mph+, and told you the S70 was not the car for you! An S70D would have helped, but really to achieve what you want you'd need the S90 or S90D, or a pre owned S85, and it's a real shame Tesla didn't get you into the correct car!