[Doug Neal]

Yes, Tesla's 300 mile claim is pretty optimistic. I get an effective range of about 220, so 200 comfortable miles with a bit of buffer.

I haven't reset my trip counter for almost 3000 miles and my average energy consumption is 370Wh/mi over that distance. I'd be interested to compare that with other drivers' measurements over multiple charges/journeys.

On the supercharger performance... I charge at the Crystal supercharger fairly regularly and honestly it's rare to see anything over 80kW even if I'm the only car charging. I suspect they're having difficulty getting sufficiently fat pipes from the grid to support the full whack, but I hope the situation improves soon.

 

[jontracey]

I am a little shy of 5000 and my average is 332 over that entire distance.

 

[Simon Mac]

@jontracey , is your car garaged overnight?

I'm at 364 overall average. My initial warm up period is dramatically hurting averages.

TBH the other change since V6.0, and the autumn weather, is I really don't need to care about range anxiety.

Today I did the Chesterfield event. It's around 36 miles from home. So I left with c.170 range, arrived with >130 miles remaining, gave some spirited test drives, and came back down the motorway / A roads at maybe a touch more MPH than I should.

Still had plenty left to take wife and daughter out for a nice meal at a little Italian 10 miles away.

My last 30 miles even came in at 261 Wh/mi!

Car's now parked up at home with 70 miles range remaining, and sat waiting for Economy 7 to kick in, and theoretically I could do the same again tomorrow, all without visiting a petrol station

Today's stats: 93.6miles, 32.4kWh, 346 Wh/mi.

 

[jontracey]

no its not garaged every night however I do pre heat in the morning to get it warmed up, and having been a leaf driver for 3 years I do tend to hypermile a little more than some would consider sane I charge to 90% which shows about 220 but for long journeys I range charge and engage range mode, this has let me squeeze 270 out of it

 

[Simon Mac]

this has let me squeeze 270 out of it

As the cyclist fraternity commonly say "Chapeau"

TBH I'm happy I can hit the "typical" if needed, just by being a bit more observant on roads, and avoiding using the brakes.

I've only felt the need do my poor imitation of hyper-miling once (my version still includes the occasional traffic light grand prixs ).

 

[Geoff]

So presumably same would go for Leaf quoted at 124 miles range and most manufacturers quoting unachievable mpg figures?

As you say ( most Manufacturers). I am pleased to say that Vauxhall give the Ampera range as 30-50 miles.
With mine I achieve 30-50 miles.

 

[smartie]

The NEDC range for the Ampera is actually quoted at 52 miles which is appears to be higher than generally achieved in daily driving.

What mpg is quoted by them in petrol only mode?

As you say ( most Manufacturers). I am pleased to say that Vauxhall give the Ampera range as 30-50 miles.
With mine I achieve 30-50 miles.

 

[Nick]

The NEDC range for the Ampera is actually quoted at 52 miles which is appears to be higher than generally achieved in daily driving.

What mpg is quoted by them in petrol only mode?

56.5 mpg

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/520846968512606208

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/521028394646274048

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/521029595777466369

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/521032647901188097

 

[Teo]

The NEDC rated range shouldn't be a discussion subject. I'm one of the few people who criticizes Tesla the most but on the NEDC issue Tesla is 100% right. Tesla does not want to use NEDC rated range in their UK advertisement but they have to do it, if not for legal reasons then for advertising a comparable range to other car manufacturers.

Imagine another car maker advertising 312 miles NEDC rated range in the UK and Tesla advertises 265 miles EPA rated one. Both cars go the same distance. The reason for the different ratings is because the NEDC system is useless. Did Tesla invent the NEDC rating system? No they didn't. How would that be fair to Tesla if they advertised a realistic range while the other car maker advertises 312 miles NEDC rated range?

They are just advertising what they are allowed to advertise. EPA ratings were as useless as NEDC when EPA was a 2 cycle test. At the time the Model S scored 300 miles EPA rated range. Then EPA changed their system to 5 cycle which is more realistic and Tesla changed their advertisement from 300 miles range to 265 miles rated range. But even the new 5 cycle EPA system is not accurate. The realistic range of the Model S should be 248 miles. But this is not Tesla's fault. They don't control the test criteria for the rated range.

 

[Teo]

I tried to cruise at 70mph on the motorway but heavy traffic put an end to that and the energy consumption soured as a result.

115 miles driven in #Tesla Model S and 122 'typical' miles remain #EV

115+122= 237 miles

61 miles driven in #Tesla Model S and 179 'typical' miles remain #EV

61+179= 240

Kevin, Tesla's calculator shows 240 miles range at 70mph with AC off. Your own two tweets are in agreement with the calculator. One of them is spot on at 240, the other is only 3 miles off. As you know elevation, speed and wind are the three important factors affecting range. Tesla's calculator is simplified and doesn't have elevation and wind input. If we want to check the accuracy of this calculator it would make sense to do an onward and return journey on the same route to eliminate most of the elevation effect and some of the wind effect. Then take the average range and speed of two journeys and compare to the calculator..

Your opening message in this topic that shows 306 miles on the calculator seems unfair and creates the impression that you think Tesla is misleading potential buyers. In terms of misleading advertisement, I think range is a non issue because Tesla's calculator seems accurate and the rated range is not up to Tesla. However their battery warranty advertisement is 100% misleading. With their new trade in program, that issue will become more important if they offer a CPO, certified pre-owned program for the S. The CPO would be a more important subject to tweet about. Tesla is now advertising a trade-in program on their home page. How are they going to sell those pre-owned cars? Are they going to continue with the misleading infinite mile warranty claim? That's something worth discussing.

BTW what do you think about the new P85D? Considering that the Model S is now faster than the Roadster, are you considering switching to P85D? If the 400 mile battery upgrade becomes available soon, it would increase the resale value of your Roadster.

Screenshot source: http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric#range

 

[Simon Mac]

IMO #Tesla Model S 85kWh range is 225 miles (+/-25) at UK speed limits & cars 'typical' range is pretty accurate #EV

Very fair assesment I'd say.

The same applies to the 60, just knock the range down to 165 miles (+/-15). That's real world experience based, but doing the maths you'd get the same number.

 

[AndyG]

The NEDC range for the Ampera is actually quoted at 52 miles which is appears to be higher than generally achieved in daily driving.

What mpg is quoted by them in petrol only mode?

Pasted straight off of the official Vauxhall Ampera page.

• 25 to 50 miles of battery electric driving range*
• Extended range of up to 360 miles

No matter what the NEDC range states Vauxhall are very honest in their sales information.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/523098978767081472

 

[Robert.Portland]

FWIW: after 26k miles on my Model S 85kWh, my average consumption is 312 WH/mile. In the winter, the average is about 330; summer is about 290. A lot of my summer driving is on 2-lane roads with 50 mph limits (not that I drive the limit, mind you), but also the speed limits on the highways here is 70 mph, so I'm typically driving more like 78.

For me, with my driving habits, I find that the Tesla "rated" miles are pretty close to what I achieve. I regularly beat "rated" with AC/heat off, and lose a bit to "rated" with AC/heat on and/or if it's raining or snowing.

I do not garage my car, but I always pre-heat if I'm plugged in. Best plan is to time the charging to end just before you leave, as the charging process warms the battery thoroughly. Then kick on the cabin heater 20 minutes before departure.

 

[Teo]

Today there is some new development on this. There is a strong argument that Tesla has improved the actual range by 25 miles in recently built cars (it is unclear how far back) but this isn't advertised yet. The improvement likely comes from weight reduction and power electronics improvements. The 25 mile calculation is based on numbers on the Canadian version of Tesla's website and a calculator on Tesla's website. They both show the range at 65mph but there is 25 miles improvement.

To summarize, current Model S cars would score 290 miles EPA rated range instead 265 if they were tested now. But they are not tested and the advertised rated range is still 265 miles for current Model S. Because the EPA ratings are slightly optimistic, the net result is that in current model S you are much more likely to actually drive close to 265 miles than in an older Model S.

Another interesting detail based on this theory is that the D version improves the range by 11 miles in the S60, 9 miles in the S85 and loses 9 miles in P85 (P85D is 9 miles worse than P85). Thanks to some creative display by mixing in old EPA ratings, only the Canadian version of Tesla's website shows this accurately. To me it makes sense that P85D gets worse range because they kept the old rear motor of P85 in the P85D. For details:

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/fo...range-25-miles-between-july-2012-and-oct-2014

 

[Nick]

The NEDC rated range shouldn't be a discussion subject. I'm one of the few people who criticizes Tesla the most but on the NEDC issue Tesla is 100% right. Tesla does not want to use NEDC rated range in their UK advertisement but they have to do it, if not for legal reasons then for advertising a comparable range to other car manufacturers.

Imagine another car maker advertising 312 miles NEDC rated range in the UK and Tesla advertises 265 miles EPA rated one. Both cars go the same distance. The reason for the different ratings is because the NEDC system is useless. Did Tesla invent the NEDC rating system? No they didn't. How would that be fair to Tesla if they advertised a realistic range while the other car maker advertises 312 miles NEDC rated range?

They are just advertising what they are allowed to advertise. EPA ratings were as useless as NEDC when EPA was a 2 cycle test. At the time the Model S scored 300 miles EPA rated range. Then EPA changed their system to 5 cycle which is more realistic and Tesla changed their advertisement from 300 miles range to 265 miles rated range. But even the new 5 cycle EPA system is not accurate. The realistic range of the Model S should be 248 miles. But this is not Tesla's fault. They don't control the test criteria for the rated range.

What rule prevents Tesla declaring less than their homologated range? Vauxhall claim 25 to 50 miles when we're told elsewhere in this thread that their homologated figure is 52 miles.

 

[AndyG]

What rule prevents Tesla declaring less than their homologated range? Vauxhall claim 25 to 50 miles when we're told elsewhere in this thread that their homologated figure is 52 miles.

Because Tesla want to sell sell sell and Vauxhall don't even know who makes the Ampera

 

[Robert.Portland]

Kevin, re your screen shots -- your statistics suggest that you are routinely beating the 265 miles rated range. With 1665.7 miles on 588.4 kWh, you're getting 283 Wh/mile. Your A trip odometer shows 279.5 Wh/mile. To get 265 miles per 80 Wh of accessible battery on the Model S, you only need to beat 302 Wh/mile (=80000/265).

So, I don't understand your beef. Your Model S with your driving habits appears to be getting 282.6 miles per full charge, comfortably above the 265 miles of EPA range.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

"Many people claim that typical range is based on 200 Wh/km. My own calculations show that it's 187 Wh/km on my car. And on the S60 loaner I calculated about 205 Wh/km."