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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all..

We took delivery of our brand new 2022 Mokka-e a few days ago.

Now I suspect I already know the answer to this question, but I am going to ask anyway so please bear with me :)..

Does the main traction battery need to complete a few full cycles before the car will get anywhere near the advertised capable range (>200)?

I know the guess-o-meter is useless but going off a pro rata of % left v distance covered, it currently stands at about 88 miles for a full battery. This is bearing in mind the car has only covered approx 200 miles total (although it was delivered with around 150 on it) and we have not done a full charge cycle yet.

Thanks
 

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Hi all..

We took delivery of our brand new 2022 Mokka-e a few days ago.

Now I suspect I already know the answer to this question, but I am going to ask anyway so please bear with me :)..

Does the main traction battery need to complete a few full cycles before the car will get anywhere near the advertised capable range (>200)?

I know the guess-o-meter is useless but going off a pro rata of % left v distance covered, it currently stands at about 88 miles for a full battery. This is bearing in mind the car has only covered approx 200 miles total (although it was delivered with around 150 on it) and we have not done a full charge cycle yet.

Thanks
We have had a Peugeot e208 for over year now - identical battery and electric motor as it is Stellantis.

My first suggestion is to really ignore the Guestimate of Mileage (GoM) figure ie the advertised range. This is based on a WLTP test on a rolling road, indoors at ideal temperatures and you will never get near it in real life. You can't work out how much range you have left by deducting the miles you have done because the range delivered by your battery is dependent on a number of factors for a given amount of "fuel" ie charge. These include the air temperature, the speed you drive, whether the road is dry or wet, the incline and acceleration. The range varies a lot with temperature so expect less at 10 degrees C than 20 degrees C (ideal for batteries) and expect a lot less at 0 degrees C. Your car also uses energy from the battery to warm itself up and this is also a big drain. So in colder weather we can use 10% of the battery charge in the first 10 miles! That's the car heating the interior. You can mitigate this for longer journeys where you need all the range by plugging in at home and then pre heating the car from your domestic supply. Doing that we have seen 185 miles range full to empty doing 70mph but in reality you will never drive to empty so 150 is realistic for winter and 180 in the summer.

Check out the real world range for different driving conditions in this link:

ev-database.uk/car/1278/Vauxhall-Mokka-e
 

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We have had a Peugeot e208 for over year now - identical battery and electric motor as it is Stellantis.

My first suggestion is to really ignore the Guestimate of Mileage (GoM) figure ie the advertised range. This is based on a WLTP test on a rolling road, indoors at ideal temperatures and you will never get near it in real life. You can't work out how much range you have left by deducting the miles you have done because the range delivered by your battery is dependent on a number of factors for a given amount of "fuel" ie charge. These include the air temperature, the speed you drive, whether the road is dry or wet, the incline and acceleration. The range varies a lot with temperature so expect less at 10 degrees C than 20 degrees C (ideal for batteries) and expect a lot less at 0 degrees C. Your car also uses energy from the battery to warm itself up and this is also a big drain. So in colder weather we can use 10% of the battery charge in the first 10 miles! That's the car heating the interior. You can mitigate this for longer journeys where you need all the range by plugging in at home and then pre heating the car from your domestic supply. Doing that we have seen 185 miles range full to empty doing 70mph but in reality you will never drive to empty so 150 is realistic for winter and 180 in the summer.

Check out the real world range for different driving conditions in this link:

ev-database.uk/car/1278/Vauxhall-Mokka-e
Sorry incomplete link: Vauxhall Mokka-e
 

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Does the main traction battery need to complete a few full cycles before the car will get anywhere near the advertised capable range (>200)?
No.

I doubt you will ever get the advertised range in winter.
 
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If you look at the wording on their website:


"Journey up to 209 miles on a single charge."

And this disclaimer:

1 Fuel economy and CO2 results for the Vauxhall Mokka-e 100kW (136PS). Mpg (l/100km): N/A. CO2 emissions: 0g/km. Electric range up to 209 miles (WLTP). The range and electric consumption figures mentioned are preliminary and comply with the WLTP test procedure, on the basis of which new vehicles are type approved from 1 September 2018. EG type approval and Certificate of Conformity are not yet available. The preliminary values might differ from official final type approval data. These may vary depending on actual conditions of use and on different factors such as: speed, thermal comfort on board the vehicle, driving style and outside temperature.


Source:

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies. I never expect to get the full advertised range, same with MPG in ICE cars.

Some further info..

This is our first EV after convincing the wife it's the way forward.

I topped the battery up to 90% 2 days ago using a local 50kw CCS charger (Home charger is not being installed until end of March).
Since the top up, the car has covered 21 miles, all short, city trips, and this is the type of journey the car will be used for most. The weather here, Manchester UK has been pretty cold and wet recently but never sub 0c, and today is milder although still quite windy.
Battery % has dropped from 90 to 65 in this time.
Going off these figures, for this case use and all external factors considered, I am looking at a range of just over 80 miles for a full charge. Is this realistic or excessively low? It seems some way off even the winter expected range by a fair bit.

We're going on a fairly long trip on Sunday, a good mix of motorway, A and B roads so it will be a good test although I do want to be prepared and know what to expect.

Thanks.
 

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Thanks for the replies. I never expect to get the full advertised range, same with MPG in ICE cars.

Some further info..

This is our first EV after convincing the wife it's the way forward.

I topped the battery up to 90% 2 days ago using a local 50kw CCS charger (Home charger is not being installed until end of March).
Since the top up, the car has covered 21 miles, all short, city trips, and this is the type of journey the car will be used for most. The weather here, Manchester UK has been pretty cold and wet recently but never sub 0c, and today is milder although still quite windy.
Battery % has dropped from 90 to 65 in this time.
Going off these figures, for this case use and all external factors considered, I am looking at a range of just over 80 miles for a full charge. Is this realistic or excessively low? It seems some way off even the winter expected range by a fair bit.

We're going on a fairly long trip on Sunday, a good mix of motorway, A and B roads so it will be a good test although I do want to be prepared and know what to expect.

Thanks.
If you're making lots of short trips you're repeatedly heating up the cabin from cold. That uses more power which will negatively impact your range.

Your long trip will do better in regards to HVAC Power consumption, but travelling at higher speeds is also bad for your range. If you go easy, being a bit more careful, dropping your speed a bit, and setting the heater to a warm rather than hot temperature you should definitely see a bit better on this trip unless the weather gets bad again.

Unfortunately these Stellantis EVs are just not very efficient in the cold for some reason. To a much worse extent than other manufacturers. You'll see more range for sure as it warms up, but as you said yourself you'll likely never get the big numbers that the dealers like to claim.
 

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Thanks for the replies. I never expect to get the full advertised range, same with MPG in ICE cars.

Some further info..

This is our first EV after convincing the wife it's the way forward.

I topped the battery up to 90% 2 days ago using a local 50kw CCS charger (Home charger is not being installed until end of March).
Since the top up, the car has covered 21 miles, all short, city trips, and this is the type of journey the car will be used for most. The weather here, Manchester UK has been pretty cold and wet recently but never sub 0c, and today is milder although still quite windy.
Battery % has dropped from 90 to 65 in this time.
Going off these figures, for this case use and all external factors considered, I am looking at a range of just over 80 miles for a full charge. Is this realistic or excessively low? It seems some way off even the winter expected range by a fair bit.

We're going on a fairly long trip on Sunday, a good mix of motorway, A and B roads so it will be a good test although I do want to be prepared and know what to expect.

Thanks.
There is nothing wrong with your car or battery, its the cold weather and repeated short journeys. You take the battery range hit for heating the car from cold over and over again which is why you have the dramatic range loss.

If you are going for a longer trip and the weather is dry and 12 degrees C like today, you are in for a big surprise - in a nice way. Try using the trip computer for the trip to see your miles per kWh. I was getting 3.3 miles/kWh last week in 5 degrees C but got 4.2 miles/kWh today. Big difference. If you imagine you have 45kW in a 100% charged battery then 3.3 x 45 = 148.5 miles range but 4.2 x 45 = 189 miles range.

I find miles/kWh more useful as you can see your long term average and average for the trip and see how different weather/driving affects it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
UPDATE:
So we took the car on its first long trip the other day as planned.. The journey was certainly a good test as the route involved an early motorway stretch, as well as fast A & B roads at high altitude over open moor land in very poor windy and rainy conditions.

I charged the car the night before to approx 95% via CCS and left the next morning with no preheating etc. The initial motorway (65mph max) run of approx 30 miles seemed to eat away at the battery SOC quite quickly. We reached the a podpoint a few miles away from the destination with 46% remaining, so did a quick top up for 20 mins to bring the charge back up to around 73%.

We came home the same way and ended up back home with 23% battery remaining, averaging 3.1KWh over approx 150 miles.

For the journey home the sat nav was trying to take us a different way, longer distance but shorter time (90% motorway). Going this way I don't think we would have made it without stopping again though.

Overall I think the car coped well and that route in those conditions is probably as hard a test as it's ever going to get!
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Hi all..

We took delivery of our brand new 2022 Mokka-e a few days ago.

Now I suspect I already know the answer to this question, but I am going to ask anyway so please bear with me :)..

Does the main traction battery need to complete a few full cycles before the car will get anywhere near the advertised capable range (>200)?

I know the guess-o-meter is useless but going off a pro rata of % left v distance covered, it currently stands at about 88 miles for a full battery. This is bearing in mind the car has only covered approx 200 miles total (although it was delivered with around 150 on it) and we have not done a full charge cycle yet.

Thanks
Hi congratulations on your new mokka-e could I ask when you ordered please?
I ordered 4/10/21 & still no car
Charge point to be fit 17/3
 

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The thread is encouraging.
I'm getting just over one mile per kWh.
My journeys are very short though.

Gaz
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi congratulations on your new mokka-e could I ask when you ordered please?
I ordered 4/10/21 & still no car
Charge point to be fit 17/3
Thanks. We ordered mid December for an initial delivery date of end of Jan. There was an issue with Vauxhall dropping the 'Nav' part of the name so the delivery was delayed slightly. Our charge point is due end of March.
 

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I generally say the range of the Mokka-e is between 120-150 miles for long journeys. I got mine in December 2021 and was probably hitting about 120 miles on a charge there. As the weather has warmed up it's definitely pushing closer to 150 as I've noticed my trip meter showing me getting 3.5-3.7mi/kWh and that's with me driving it up and down motorways with the cruise set usually around 73mph (adaptive cruise means I'm often doing a bit less though if traffic is heavier). I've also never used eco mode so I suspect I could do better if I tried, but I firmly believe in driving the car comfortably and like I would an ICE vehicle.

As mentioned above I suspect if you're doing lots of little trips you will see an overall lower range by the time you're low on charge. But if you're only getting 80 miles out of a single motorway journey I would consider that being a potential issue with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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Been on a couple of trips these past 2 days in the warmer conditions. A good mix of motorway miles at approx 65mph with a couple of faster bursts, along with fast A roads and dual carriageway sections. Battery from cold with no preheating via the app either. Still struggling to hit the elusive 4 miles/kWh mark.
 

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Been on a couple of trips these past 2 days in the warmer conditions. A good mix of motorway miles at approx 65mph with a couple of faster bursts, along with fast A roads and dual carriageway sections. Battery from cold with no preheating via the app either. Still struggling to hit the elusive 4 miles/kWh mark.
Doing mine tommorow got to do 102 miles from full battery. Fingers crossed mostly straight motorway
 

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I have a theory in general about EV charging that affects range, but I don't have any scientific proof:
I found that when charging faster, the battery also gets depleted faster, even though the SOC displays the same as when slower charging.
This may be due to what is called "absorption" and "surface charge" known in solar system batteries (Li-ion / Lifepo4).

Whenever I do DC fast charging (usually 50kw chargers), it seems like the percentage of the battery goes down more quickly.
When I charge at home it's better.
Even on AC charging at home, I have noticed that while charging at 4kwh (the maximum for my setup, as the car can't accept 3 phase), it takes less time to charge, and when charging is done it shows 100% charge. But, those first 10% go down pretty quickly.
I recently tried charging slower at home @2.5kwh, and it seems like the charge is "deeper" in the battery, with the first 10% going down alot slower (same drive/route).

The downside to slower AC charging is of course the time it takes, but also there are more losses in the AC-DC conversion of the charger (I has been proven by the German guy with ID.3 on YT, can't remember his name/channel). So that means that you will be using a bit more kwh to charge the car up.

"Surface charge" on Li-Ion batteries means that while the charge goes up on the surface of the electrodes inside the battery, it hasn't been absorbed in the mass of the battery. Therefore it might confuse the BMS thinking that the battery is charged enough, based on the voltage of the battery.


I might do an experiment sometime soon to prove this:
I will charge the car fully at a higher rate at home, and then check the DC battery capacity (via Car Scanner app and OBD2).

Then I will do another charge session (after driving enough to deplete the battery) but on a slower charge cycle and check the capacity again vs battery voltage.

This might not be scientific, because of temperature differences, but I will try to do both charge session in similar conditions as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Doing mine tommorow got to do 102 miles from full battery. Fingers crossed mostly straight motorway
Reset your trip and post your results later.

I have a theory in general about EV charging that affects range, but I don't have any scientific proof:
I found that when charging faster, the battery also gets depleted faster, even though the SOC displays the same as when slower charging.
This may be due to what is called "absorption" and "surface charge" known in solar system batteries (Li-ion / Lifepo4).

Whenever I do DC fast charging (usually 50kw chargers), it seems like the percentage of the battery goes down more quickly.
When I charge at home it's better.
Even on AC charging at home, I have noticed that while charging at 4kwh (the maximum for my setup, as the car can't accept 3 phase), it takes less time to charge, and when charging is done it shows 100% charge. But, those first 10% go down pretty quickly.
I recently tried charging slower at home @2.5kwh, and it seems like the charge is "deeper" in the battery, with the first 10% going down alot slower (same drive/route).

The downside to slower AC charging is of course the time it takes, but also there are more losses in the AC-DC conversion of the charger (I has been proven by the German guy with ID.3 on YT, can't remember his name/channel). So that means that you will be using a bit more kwh to charge the car up.

"Surface charge" on Li-Ion batteries means that while the charge goes up on the surface of the electrodes inside the battery, it hasn't been absorbed in the mass of the battery. Therefore it might confuse the BMS thinking that the battery is charged enough, based on the voltage of the battery.


I might do an experiment sometime soon to prove this:
I will charge the car fully at a higher rate at home, and then check the DC battery capacity (via Car Scanner app and OBD2).

Then I will do another charge session (after driving enough to deplete the battery) but on a slower charge cycle and check the capacity again vs battery voltage.

This might not be scientific, because of temperature differences, but I will try to do both charge session in similar conditions as possible.
It's an interesting theory, and one I've kind of thought about myself albeit regarding my mobile phone batteries... The first 10 or so percent seems to drain much quicker than the rest.
 
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