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Discussion Starter #1
I hate to post a link to The Express but this one is too egregious to pass by....


Electric car sale increases have turned experts attention to non-engine pollutants with new data revealing a car’s tyres could be the most dangerous. Data from Emissions Analytics has shown tyre pollution can be up to 1,000 times worse than a car exhaust in a shocking find.

Experts found brand new tyres emitted 5.8 grams of emissions for every kilometre travelled compared to just 4.5 milligrams per kilometre from a regulated exhaust.
Come on. 5.8 grams of "emissions" per kilometre ? :rolleyes: I'm no rocket scientist but if a tyre actually shed 5.8 grams of mass per kilometre an entire ~10Kg tyre would be gone in 1724 kilometres! :rolleyes:

The weasel words are "brand new tyres" - brand new tyres still have release compound on them to release the rubber from the moulds, this stuff is quite slippery but wears off in about 50 miles of driving, so I could potentially see 5.8 grams of release compound shedding from a brand new tyre. Well, so what ? ICE vehicles have tyres that when new have release compound on them as well ? Does anyone know what the release compound is that coats new tyres and whether it would produce particulates like the rubber ? I suspect it's not rubber...
 

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I think they've got the units wrong and it's milligrams as they've given for the exhaust.

My understanding is that this release compound is an urban myth.
Even if not it would be gone in a mile or so.
New tyres do tend to have those little spikes from the moulding process that can take a few miles to rub off; but they probably only make up 5 grams max in total.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think they've got the units wrong and it's milligrams as they've given for the exhaust.
I did wonder if the units were wrong...
My understanding is that this release compound is an urban myth.
Even if not it would be gone in a mile or so.
New tyres do tend to have those little spikes from the moulding process that can take a few miles to rub off; but they probably only make up 5 grams max in total.
Release compound coating new tyres is not a myth.

New tyres definitely have less grip for about the first 50 miles or so, in fact last time I got new tyres on my Ion they felt downright squirrelly under acceleration to the point where I thought something was wrong - until the surface layer had worn off and you could see fresh rubber exposed - approximately 50 miles. Then they felt fine. I've noticed the same effect on other tyres on other cars although not quite as pronounced.

I don't think the little spikes have that much effect - they tend to last for many hundreds of miles (well over 500 miles on my last new tyres) before they finally wear off, but the grip of the tyre normalises long before the spikes wear off.
 

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There are people out there unfortunately that just love any reason to whinge, moan and complain about anything. If it wasn’t the tyre particles it would be something else. Perhaps we should send them all to an island somewhere so that we don’t have to put up with them.
I for one am totally happy with the way electric cars are doing their bit to clean up the environment. Nothing is perfect, and a microscopic amount of rubber or brake dust isn’t going to create an environmental disaster.
 

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Nothing is perfect, and a microscopic amount of rubber or brake dust isn’t going to create an environmental disaster.
It’s actually the opposite, tyre and brake particulates from all vehicles end up in our watercourses and ultimately the oceans.

They are then ingested by all sorts of life into our food chain.

Just because you can’t see it or aren’t worried about it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, or isn’t an environmental disaster.

EVs are better than ICE vehicles from a emissions point of view (although gawd knows that continues to be argued by all and sundry), but they aren’t the answer to everything and are only part of the solution.

The only green motoring is no motoring at all...
 

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I can't see anything particularly wrong in the general message from that link - it's merely flagging up particulates from tyres causes pollution, meaning that a switch to EV won't mean no air pollution. As stated above - reduce all forms of motoring to reduce pollution. It's not rocket science!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It’s actually the opposite, tyre and brake particulates from all vehicles end up in our watercourses and ultimately the oceans.

They are then ingested by all sorts of life into our food chain.
Not sure what can be done about tyre particulates though, other than don't drive cars...and that's not gonna fly with the general population.

Brake particulates can be greatly reduced by regenerative braking, (perhaps virtually eliminated in the future with more advanced regenerative braking where friction brakes are only used for emergency stops and holding stationary after regen has already brought you to a full stop) however cars need tyres and rubber inherently wears down as part of its function. The best you can hope to do is make the particulates that wear off tyres less harmful or perhaps biodegradable.

I suspect biodegradable tyre particulates that quickly break down into harmless organic materials is the only way this problem will ever be solved.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I can't see anything particularly wrong in the general message from that link - it's merely flagging up particulates from tyres causes pollution, meaning that a switch to EV won't mean no air pollution. As stated above - reduce all forms of motoring to reduce pollution. It's not rocket science!
The way the article is written is clearly sensationalist misleading click bait. I thought that much was obvious. :) (Especially if it turns out they have a factor of 1000 error in their figures due to a units mix up...)
 

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New tyres definitely have less grip for about the first 50 miles or so,
Yes, and that has led to the myth.
Think about it - How long do you think a coating intended not to adhere to things is going to stay on the tread of a tyre on the road?
The explanation for the grip gain is mechanical. The new tyre has a very smooth surface (the moulds are shiny metal). During those first 50 miles or so the surface gets rubbed rough which improves grip.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes, and that has led to the myth.
Think about it - How long do you think a coating intended not to adhere to things is going to stay on the tread of a tyre on the road?
By that line of reasoning the Teflon coating on a non-stick pan would also fall off quickly as it wouldn't adhere to the metal of the pan - exactly the opposite of what you want it to do. Just because something has a slippery surface doesn't mean that it can't bond well to a specific parent material. There's plenty of examples like the Teflon coated pan where the Teflon is strongly bonded to the pan but simultaneously is very slippery to anything else that comes into contact with it.
The explanation for the grip gain is mechanical. The new tyre has a very smooth surface (the moulds are shiny metal). During those first 50 miles or so the surface gets rubbed rough which improves grip.
I'm sure that's a contributing factor but I don't think it's the whole story. New tyre treads aren't as smooth as you make out.
 

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From my experience so far my Leafs tyres will last just as long as i would expect any ICE i have owned to last so the wear rate with my driving style is no different from what i can see,hence no extra particulates being released, and brake pads are easily going to outlast any pads i have on an ICE so again less pollution.
So IMHO the concern is bullshit.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The front tyres on my Ion have done nearly 30k miles and still have plenty of tread left to pass the MOT - and they're soft(ish) all Season tyres that wear a bit more in summer than a summer tyre would do. Rears probably would have done the same (RWD with larger size on the rear) but hard to be sure as both sides at the rear have had replacements due to punctures part way through their expected lifetime.

I regard "EV's are heavier so must wear their tyres faster (and therefore produce more tyre PM)" as theoretical at best and not borne out in practice since driving style and smoothness (or not) of torque delivery have as much effect if not more on tyre wear than a small weight increase alone.
 

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Yes i think driving style is everything here along with drivers running tyres under inflated etc. With so many variables to consider , its just laughable to suggest an EV will burn thru its tyres quicker.Lets take a Ford Focus for example, does every Focus on the road wear its tyres at the same rate like for like brand? Should do its the same car after all;)
 

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Heavier vehicles have tyres with higher load ratings. Would they necessarily lose surface at the same rate as a lighter car with lighter load ratings?
 

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Perhaps we should send them all to an island somewhere so that we don’t have to put up with them.
Yes, it's called "Great Britain" (or at least the southern part thereof...)

;)
 

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Anyone worried that I'm creating excessive rubbery particle is most welcome to donate to my Flying EV-drone fund. This will be solar-charged, and will deffo have zero exhaust/tyre/brake-lining emissions. And it will help reduce congestion on the roads, and won't need expensive smart motorway modifications. Boris, where are you? :)
 

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When they understand this - https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC89231/jrc89231-online final version 2.pdf - they may be able to make educated comments. Its all about respirable harmful particulates, not the weight of rubber worn off the tyres.

Brakes are, as we all know less polluting for EV's and if there is a large loss of rubber in the first days of use of a tyre, it is the is ammount of respirable particulates created over the life of the tyre that is important. See report above.
 
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