Most economical and reliable used EV for £20k

6447 Views 127 Replies 41 Participants Last post by Stinsy, 4 mo ago

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago (Edited)

After a couple of very unpleasant months commuting in a Suzuki Swift, I've decided that I need to increase the budget and get back into an EV.

I've got an absolute maximum budget of £20k. The most important considerations are reliability, range, comfort and maintenance costs (in that order).

The two cars that seem to most closely fit the bill are:

1. Renault Zoe R135 52kWh (Rapid Charge)
Pros: range; infotainment; Renault dealership is closer to me
Cons: reliability; the dealership may be closer but the staff are ****

2. Nissan Leaf 40kWh
Pros: more comfortable at motorway speeds; reliability (although a few surveys I found online said otherwise)
Cons: range; infotainment; dealership is miles away; CHAdeMO

Edited to add: must have climate control, cruise control (normal or adaptive) and folding mirrors.

Any and all advice and suggestions welcome.

21 - 40 of 128 Posts

andydsmith

· #21 · 5 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
Sorry, I forgot to give numbers: I'm looking for 150+ miles. I think the eGolf does about 100, doesn't it?

You won't get 150+ miles from a 40kWh LEAF - at least not most of the time. In Winter it would be closer to 100 and could be less in really bad conditions. The furthest I drove without charging mine was 126 miles at 50 - 65mph in the Summer and I think I finished with about 10% so could have done 140. I think only the 38kWh Ioniq, the MG 5 or the 50kWh Zoe would manage 150 miles most of the time and be within your budget.

Reactions: 2

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #22 · 5 mo ago

John RB said:
We really like our Zoe - but our driving is nearly all pootling around town. Be warned, our 20 plate 52kWh gives only about 160 miles when temps are low like now.

Renault should be sued for calling the charger 50kW. The most I have ever seen is 42kW and most often it seems to be around the mid 30s. I see a time when Zoe are put to the back of the queue begind all the newer 150kW capable vehicles

Interesting.

Jimlad said:
Im bias but eGolf? Fantastic car but maybe a bit short in the range department (140 summer 110 winter)

I've had several ICE Golfs and got on well with all of them. I'd assumed the eGolf's range would be worse than that.

Buzzie said:
VW e-Up? For £20k it will be pretty much a new car.

I did this commute in an Up GTI for a while. I'd put the Up in the same category as the Suzuki Swift: great little cars but not really designed or built for motorway commuting.

srichards said:
Leaf 40 is 110 mile car in winter. Reliability is questionable with the battery failures on them. It's nicely built but the charging speed is pants as well. The MG5 will last a lot longer I suspect.

As I mentioned in my first post, I've found a few reports and surveys online that question the Leaf's (and Nissan's) reliability.

Creationblue said:
Surely the eGolf is undoubtedly the most economical, we have just sold ours and its sitting for sale in the Isle of White. 150miles summer easily, it left our house last week and completed 98miles to the I-O-W and still had 50miles remaining, so even in the depths of winter it has a decent range!

That's really useful information.

After reading your and Jimlad's posts, I need to have a closer look at the eGolf. VW dealer is just down the road from me, as well.

Talaipwros said:
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there you go

Nice one.

andydsmith said:
You won't get 150+ miles from a 40kWh LEAF - at least not most of the time. In Winter it would be closer to 100 and could be less in really bad conditions. The furthest I drove without charging mine was 126 miles at 50 - 65mph in the Summer and I think I finished with about 10% so could have done 140. I think only the 38kWh Ioniq, the MG 5 or the 50kWh Zoe would manage 150 miles most of the time and be within your budget.

I could live with 140 but 100 is not good at all.

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93410

· #23 · 5 mo ago

e-Golf, the later version with the 35.8kWh pack

Reactions: 1

Stinsy

· #24 · 5 mo ago

+1 for eGolf. Nicer place to be than either Zoe or LEAF. Some models can rapid charge on CCS so you can drive from Cornwall to John o' Groats if you want to stop every 2 hrs.

How long is your commute?

Reactions: 1

alegar

· #25 · 5 mo ago

Are the 36kWh from the egolf really good enough to do 140miles at 70mpwh?

Reactions: 1

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #26 · 5 mo ago

Thanks very much, everyone; I really appreciate all of the replies.

Stinsy said:
+1 for eGolf. Nicer place to be than either Zoe or LEAF. Some models can rapid charge on CCS so you can drive from Cornwall to John o' Groats if you want to stop every 2 hrs.

How long is your commute?

Commute is 30 miles each way.

Just realised something that I forgot to mention that might put the MG5 out of budget: I need climate control, cruise control and folding mirrors (the car will be garaged). I think that means I'd need the Exclusive trim level (for climate and mirrors) which would put it over £20k.

Creationblue

· #27 · 5 mo ago

My old eGolf is at Snow's Newport IOW if you want to take a look. Low mileage with all the extra's (bar heat pump)

Reactions: 2

Talaipwros

· #28 · 5 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
Thanks very much, everyone; I really appreciate all of the replies.

Commute is 30 miles each way.

Just realised something that I forgot to mention that might put the MG5 out of budget: I need climate control, cruise control and folding mirrors (the car will be garaged). I think that means I'd need the Exclusive trim level (for climate and mirrors) which would put it over £20k.

All is not lost!

www.dicksonsofinverness.co.uk

MG 5 Electric Estate 115kW Exclusive EV 53kWh 5dr Auto Arctic White - 32401 Miles - Dicksons of Inverness

MG 5 Electric Estate 115kW Exclusive EV 53kWh 5dr Auto , 32,401 miles, Colour: Arctic White - available at Dicksons of Inverness. See the details online or call us on 01463 712800 to arrange a test drive today.

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Reactions: 2

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #29 · 5 mo ago

Creationblue said:
My old eGolf is at Snow's Newport IOW if you want to take a look. Low mileage with all the extra's (bar heat pump)

A bit far from me but thanks.

Talaipwros said:
All is not lost!

MG 5 Electric Estate 115kW Exclusive EV 53kWh 5dr Auto Arctic White - 32401 Miles - Dicksons of Inverness

MG 5 Electric Estate 115kW Exclusive EV 53kWh 5dr Auto , 32,401 miles, Colour: Arctic White - available at Dicksons of Inverness. See the details online or call us on 01463 712800 to arrange a test drive today.

www.dicksonsofinverness.co.uk

Good find. Not available to buy online and it's over 500 miles away.

I'll see if I can find one a bit closer to home to have a look at.

shikoku14

· #30 · 5 mo ago

alegar said:
Are the 36kWh from the egolf really good enough to do 140miles at 70mpwh?

I can say they are 120 max in summer at high speeds, and the e-Golf works weirdly that it starts pre-turtling around 20/25% (can't remember off hand) by reducing performance before slipping into eco mode and nerfing the top speed so you can't even do 70. I had this happen to me a motorway junction before I needed to come off and charge when I had my e-Golf and you are old school Leafing it along behind trucks when that happens.

Also unless the one you get has a heat pump the GOM will drop the range a fair chunk depending on temp / fan speed you put the heat on in the car.

I'd say (as an approximate) they are about 25-30% less efficient than an Ioniq 38 in all weathers.

Reactions: 1

Hitstirrer

· #31 · 5 mo ago

I have a mate in a very similar position to you who is going through a list of all of your own usual suspect cars using a pro and con process. One thing he mentioned that I hadn't considered was over the Chademo conflict. I had expressed the view that it wasn't really an issue as there would be many Chad plugs around for some time. And that he would rarely be using Rapids anyway. But he said that it could become a larger issue over the few years that he intended to keep this next car because when he came to sell on, buyers might be even more reluctant to buy a car with a Chademo socket and it could limit his market and cause a low value. On reflection, if he is thinking this way at this stage then he may be right about that effect being troublesome in four years time. Whatever will happen he has crossed the Leaf off his list.

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Reactions: 1

Talaipwros

· #32 · 5 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
A bit far from me but thanks.

Good find. Not available to buy online and it's over 500 miles away. I'll see if I can find one a bit closer to home to have a look at.

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Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

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with climate and cruise control, under 1000 miles and 500 pounds deposit contribution!

Reactions: 1

People's Front of Judea

· #33 · 5 mo ago

Used market guaranteed to experience EV oversupply this year resulting from 2020 lease ends. Few used buyers want s/h EVs, low demand = softer prices.

Slope Plot Line Font Rectangle

If you can bear it, spend two more unpleasant months commuting in that Swift whereupon bargains will be plentiful

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Cheshirecat

· #34 · 5 mo ago

Ioniq 👍

Reactions: 1

HandyAndy

· #35 · 5 mo ago (Edited)

If you don't want the Ioniq 38 at 210 miles summer 180 winter (what I get - regular 160 mile winter drive & always 20+ miles in GOM when I arrive) but you don'r want the same car again, try the Ioniq 28! It will do 160 miles summer 120 winter, and has several benefits over the 38!

1) Quite a bit cheaper - what's not to like?
2) Rock solid batteries with low degradation reported. Some early 38s are undergoing batttery recall-&-swap at the mo, mine's due in appx 2 weeks time. Needs a VIN check if considering 2019 or early-mid 2020 builds. Otoh a new battery is a nice-to-have! 28s no such issues.
3) Properly air-cooled, so none of the present Coolant Fluid swap hassles that are starting to affect the 38s around now - mines showing signs of this problem. Am negotiating with my dealer to synchronise the Battery sawp plus a Coolant flush-and-swap to be done all at the same time. Hyundai seem to have changed theit coolant formula twice in last few months - now on version 3 "pink" stuff we believe. Will be a well-sorted car when all this is done, but it's all a bit topsy-turvy at the mo'. Not a reason to avoid the 38, just a lifetime glitch in process of being sorted.
4) Coolant changes at year 4 are pricey - appx £350 on top of usual service! Poss even more at year 6, tho haven't investigated this myself. 28 doesn use coolant for battery, so should be far cheaper.
5) Faster charging! Mine's maxing out around 33kW in this cold weather, 46 in summer up to 53% SOC, then drops to 33kW. 28 fills at 67 kW to about 67% SOC before dropping. (Might be slower in winter?)

Drawbacks of 28 over 38? 45 miles less range, less wty remaining, can't set an AC charge limit so it always tries to go to 100% SOC, smaller central screen. Can't think of anything else.
But if the range is ok, and you're happy to Rapid fll on longer trips, the 28's a cracker.
I chose the 38 as wanted to do my regular 160 mile winter trip non-stop, else I'd have bought a 28.

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Reactions: 2

Bill N

· #36 · 5 mo ago

I tend to think, generally speaking, anyone with £20k in their pocket would be unwise to spend it on any used EV right now - save a little more and soon enough a used Tesla will be obtainable.

Exceptions mostly being if you really need a hatchback, never do long journeys or are excessively worried about reliability.

Reactions: 2

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #37 · 5 mo ago

shikoku14 said:
I can say they are 120 max in summer at high speeds, and the e-Golf works weirdly that it starts pre-turtling around 20/25% (can't remember off hand) by reducing performance before slipping into eco mode and nerfing the top speed so you can't even do 70. I had this happen to me a motorway junction before I needed to come off and charge when I had my e-Golf and you are old school Leafing it along behind trucks when that happens.

Also unless the one you get has a heat pump the GOM will drop the range a fair chunk depending on temp / fan speed you put the heat on in the car.

I'd say (as an approximate) they are about 25-30% less efficient than an Ioniq 38 in all weathers.

The bit I've emboldened made me chuckle. 😄

Hitstirrer said:
I have a mate in a very similar position to you who is going through a list of all of your own usual suspect cars using a pro and con process. One thing he mentioned that I hadn't considered was over the Chademo conflict. I had expressed the view that it wasn't really an issue as there would be many Chad plugs around for some time. And that he would rarely be using Rapids anyway. But he said that it could become a larger issue over the few years that he intended to keep this next car because when he came to sell on, buyers might be even more reluctant to buy a car with a Chademo socket and it could limit his market and cause a low value. On reflection, if he is thinking this way at this stage then he may be right about that effect being troublesome in four years time. Whatever will happen he has crossed the Leaf off his list.

I'd be lying if I said CHAdeMO wasn't putting me off the Leaf. It's a bit daft really because I've got a home charger and I'll rarely need to use public chargers at all. But I'm trying to cover everything before I make a decision. The Swift was an expensive mistake that I don't want to repeat.

Talaipwros said:
Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

with climate and cruise control, under 1000 miles and 500 pounds deposit contribution!

The Zoe is really tempting. I test drove a GT Line last year. It drove well and I liked the infotainment but it didn't feel particularly well built and Renault never seem to do very well in reliability surveys.

People's Front of Judea said:
Used market guaranteed to experience EV oversupply this year resulting from 2020 lease ends. Few used buyers want s/h EVs, low demand = softer prices.

View attachment 171732
If you can bear it, spend two more unpleasant months commuting in that Swift whereupon bargains will be plentiful

I'm being a drama queen. It's not that bad.

My wife wants me to get rid of the Swift as soon as possible but it definitely looks like it might be worth hanging on for a bit.

HandyAndy said:
If you don't want the Ioniq 38 at 210 miles summer 180 winter (what I get - regular 160 mile winter drive & always 20+ miles in GOM when I arrive) but you don'r want the same car again, try the Ioniq 28! It will do 160 miles summer 120 winter, and has several benefits over the 38!

1) Quite a bit cheaper - what's not to like?
2) Rock solid batteries with low degradation reported. Some early 38s are undergoing batttery recall-&-swap at the mo, mine's due in appx 2 weeks time. Needs a VIN check if considering 2019 or early-mid 2020 builds. Otoh a new battery is a nice-to-have! 28s no such issues.
3) Properly air-cooled, so none of the present Coolant Fluid swap hassles that are starting to affect the 38s around now - mines showing signs of this problem. Am negotiating with my dealer to synchronise the Battery sawp plus a Coolant flush-and-swap to be done all at the same time. Hyundai seem to have changed theit coolant formula twice in last few months - now on version 3 "pink" stuff we believe. Will be a well-sorted car when all this is done, but it's all a bit topsy-turvy at the mo'. Not a reason to avoid the 38, just a lifetime glitch in process of being sorted.
4) Coolant changes at year 4 are pricey - appx £350 on top of usual service! Poss even more at year 6, tho haven't investigated this myself. 28 doesn use coolant for battery, so should be far cheaper.
5) Faster charging! Mine's maxing out around 33kW in this cold weather, 46 in summer up to 53% SOC, then drops to 33kW. 28 fills at 67 kW to about 67% SOC before dropping. (Might be slower in winter?)

Drawbacks of 28 over 38? 45 miles less range, less wty remaining, can't set an AC charge limit so it always tries to go to 100% SOC, smaller central screen. Can't think of anything else.
But if the range is ok, and you're happy to Rapid fll on longer trips, the 28's a cracker.
I chose the 38 as wanted to do my regular 160 mile winter trip non-stop, else I'd have bought a 28.

I know I should really just get a 38 but but but... I want something different. 🙈

Bill N said:
I tend to think, generally speaking, anyone with £20k in their pocket would be unwise to spend it on any used EV right now - save a little more and soon enough a used Tesla will be obtainable.

Exceptions mostly being if you really need a hatchback, never do long journeys or are excessively worried about reliability.

I would say that I am excessively worried about reliability... One of the main reasons for getting the Swift was Suzuki's reliability record. I was so focussed on it, in fact, that it never occurred to me that a 1.0 turbo wouldn't be very economical at motorway speeds. 😑

Also, the cheapest AU Teslas are already £10k over-budget; and they're the lunar mileage, scruffy examples.

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GarryL

· #38 · 5 mo ago

People's Front of Judea said:
Used market guaranteed to experience EV oversupply this year resulting from 2020 lease ends. Few used buyers want s/h EVs, low demand = softer prices.

View attachment 171732
If you can bear it, spend two more unpleasant months commuting in that Swift whereupon bargains will be plentiful

Just be aware that the line on that graph with the promising looking peak shows the proportion of EVs sold, not the absolute amount, which is shown by the bars. Early 2020 was a poor time for new car sales, due to Covid, no doubt. So, relatively few will be coming out of lease in the next few months.

Nonetheless, I do think there is room for optimism about used prices falling, because there are already signs of it, for whatever reason. The last year or so has seen unusually high prices, so there is certainly room for adjustment.

Reactions: 2

Bill N

· #39 · 5 mo ago

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Reactions: 2

Edinburgh 2000

· #40 · 5 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
I'd be lying if I said CHAdeMO wasn't putting me off the Leaf.

I don't get that. No-one is scrapping Chademo rapid chargers. Just because a few charge point operators (CPOs) are installing CCS-only chargers, does not mean that there will be any fewer Chademo chargers than there are today. If anything, it reduces the demand on the twin CCS / Chademo chargers making it easier for us Leaf owners to get a rapid charge. Maybe the number of Chademo sites will not grow as fast as CCS, but they will not reduce. Not until we see CPOs pulling Chademo chargers out of the ground should we start to get worried.

Reactions: 2

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