Most economical and reliable used EV for £20k

6424 Views 127 Replies 41 Participants Last post by Stinsy, 4 mo ago

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · 4 mo ago (Edited)

After a couple of very unpleasant months commuting in a Suzuki Swift, I've decided that I need to increase the budget and get back into an EV.

I've got an absolute maximum budget of £20k. The most important considerations are reliability, range, comfort and maintenance costs (in that order).

The two cars that seem to most closely fit the bill are:

1. Renault Zoe R135 52kWh (Rapid Charge)
Pros: range; infotainment; Renault dealership is closer to me
Cons: reliability; the dealership may be closer but the staff are ****

2. Nissan Leaf 40kWh
Pros: more comfortable at motorway speeds; reliability (although a few surveys I found online said otherwise)
Cons: range; infotainment; dealership is miles away; CHAdeMO

Edited to add: must have climate control, cruise control (normal or adaptive) and folding mirrors.

Any and all advice and suggestions welcome.

81 - 100 of 128 Posts

Bill N

· #81 · 4 mo ago

If a Swift is considered a death trap, how would a Zoe be thought of…?

Reactions: 2

Dion Rust

· #82 · 4 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
I test drove a Corsa-e last year. ev-database says it'll do 170 miles which is more than enough for me. I'm wary of Vauxhall's reputation for reliability, though.

I assume this is warm weather range as well! 😬

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shikoku14

· #83 · 4 mo ago

Bill N said:
If a Swift is considered a death trap, how would a Zoe be thought of…?

A silent death trap

Reactions: 2

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #84 · 4 mo ago

2

Bill N said:
If a Swift is considered a death trap, how would a Zoe be thought of…?

Good question. 😄 She wasn't with me when I test drove the Zoe...

The Zoe felt much more sturdily-constructed than the Swift. Unlike my wife, I don't believe that the Swift is actually unsafe; I think it just feels that way, especially when you're on the motorway.

Dion Rust said:
I assume this is warm weather range as well! 😬

These are the figures they've got for the Corsa-e:

Rectangle Font Circle Number Parallel

And for the Zoe:

Rectangle Font Circle Number Magenta

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Jeffrey Cooper

· #85 · 4 mo ago

Although in the end I hated our Zoe 50 due to the infotainment going all stupid, and the local dealer losing my faith in them, the car was actually quite nice to live with - didn't feel too small, and the distance to empty figure always brought a smile to my face.

Reactions: 1

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #86 · 4 mo ago

Jeffrey Cooper said:
Although in the end I hated our Zoe 50 due to the infotainment going all stupid, and the local dealer losing my faith in them, the car was actually quite nice to live with - didn't feel too small, and the distance to empty figure always brought a smile to my face.

What happened to the infotainment?

The local Renault dealership is staffed by a bunch of arseclowns. If I do get a Zoe, I think I'd have to drive further afield rather than deal with them.

Jeffrey Cooper

· #87 · 4 mo ago

It lost any knowledge of installed maps, even though they were there, so I couldn't update them. For some I guess this wouldn't be an issue (carplay types) but renaults support took months to finally suggest taking it into the dealer - and even though I'd had a long relationship with the garage, and with the people there, I just knew that something had changed in their attitudes - so we jumped ship first chance we got (to the Niro)

Still got a soft spot for it though.

Reactions: 1

People's Front of Judea

· #88 · 4 mo ago

Cheshirecat said:
Agree, but the question is 20k now……and rather than suggest to the OP to do something different than they have asked….I made suggestions based on “ <20 k..now “ 👍

Several of us took issue with the notion that an in-budget Tesla will require a long wait, which it won't, and that the dialled-in oversupply of 20-plate BEVs will be "swallowed up" on the used market, for which there is compelling evidence to the contrary

Example:
Record month for new BEV sales is 42,000 transactions, or one third of the market
Record quarter for used BEV sales is 16,000 transactions, which isn't even 1%

This chasm will shrink over time but really, where is the proof that buyers want used BEVs? Every single one of the incentives needed to stoke demand in the first place (BIK, corporation tax, salary sacrifice, free chargers, grants, price cuts, low finance PCP deals, etc.) only apply to new cars. How many used buyers will end up disenchanted by winter range, the state of public charging, expiring warranties and so on anyway? We forget most people don't share this forum's quaint monogamous relationship with one drivetrain.

I bought a BEV in 2012 because I was curious and stuck around for the tax breaks. If those same breaks applied to an RS6 Avant I'd be out of the Tesla before you could say vorsprung durch netflix

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Jeffrey Cooper

· #89 · 4 mo ago

Deleted - I can't stop myself worrying about the money my Niro is losing - and then writing about it !!

Reactions: 1

People's Front of Judea

· #90 · 4 mo ago

Yes, quite. The number of BEV company car owners at work here has grown enormously over the last two years, to the point I can look out of the window and see my Model S, Model X, Model Y, several Model 3s, two Zoes, an old LEAF, two iPaces, an ID.3, that goddamned hideous BMW thing, a Kona. The newcomer Ariya suffered a dead battery last week and is at the Nissan dealership in Chelmsford, who incidentally do not have the means to repair it or suggest how long any repairs will take.

The overwhelming consensus among everyone is that NOT ONE of us would own these stupid bloody cars privately

Reactions: 1

BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #91 · 4 mo ago

Jeffrey Cooper said:
Deleted - I can't stop myself worrying about the money my Niro is losing - and then writing about it !!

I read it before you deleted it. Ouch, is all I can say.

Mrklaw

· #92 · 4 mo ago

People's Front of Judea said:
Yes, quite. The number of BEV company car owners at work here has grown enormously over the last two years, to the point I can look out of the window and see my Model S, Model X, Model Y, several Model 3s, two Zoes, an old LEAF, two iPaces, an ID.3, that goddamned hideous BMW thing, a Kona. The newcomer Ariya suffered a dead battery last week and is at the Nissan dealership in Chelmsford, who incidentally do not have the means to repair it or suggest how long any repairs will take.

The overwhelming consensus among everyone is that NOT ONE of us would own these stupid bloody cars privately

why? aside from cost because BIK/SS will skew that either way.

Reactions: 1

People's Front of Judea

· #93 · 4 mo ago

Battery and warranty issues. They've all been unreliable POS but as with most† owners we forgive their foibles and tantrums because they cost nothing to run; a situation perpetuated by the charging also being free here

† the Ariya owner is spitting feathers and on Thursday the iPace owner had heater failure requiring the car to be "decommissioned" at Grange in Woodford

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Mrklaw

· #94 · 4 mo ago

battery worry as we don’t have data on longevity? I thought most data (other than badly thermally managed leaf batteries) was pointing towards them lasting well

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Jeffrey Cooper

· #95 · 4 mo ago

I think my issue is that of the potential for them to be a huge white elephant - how many years have we been pushing these things now; how many years have people been saying "don't worry, the batteries last forever"; how many years have people been saying "don't worry, we can recycle the batteries"; how many years have people been saying "don't worry, battery repair outfits will spring up everywhere". Well let's be clear - I'm still worried !!

Reactions: 2

People's Front of Judea

· #96 · 4 mo ago

Mrklaw said:
battery worry as we don’t have data on longevity? I thought most data (other than badly thermally managed leaf batteries) was pointing towards them lasting well

Battery worry as in, the Ariya has one that is already dead. It is no more than 1-2 months old and still smells of the shipping container. The iPace is a constant cause of headaches for its owner (the other one has given no trouble at all, low speed shunt notwithstanding). My views on the ID.3, its interior and software I have aired previously. My car eats driveshafts, door handles, window regulators, and about £30K in depreciation.

As I think @Jeffrey Cooper found, once you start listing these things out, the sheer folly becomes all too obvious.

Reactions: 1

HarryA

· #97 · 4 mo ago

BillTheButcher said:
After a couple of very unpleasant months commuting in a Suzuki Swift, I've decided that I need to increase the budget and get back into an EV.

I've got an absolute maximum budget of £20k. The most important considerations are reliability, range, comfort and maintenance costs (in that order).

The two cars that seem to most closely fit the bill are:

1. Renault Zoe R135 52kWh (Rapid Charge)
Pros: range; infotainment; Renault dealership is closer to me
Cons: reliability; the dealership may be closer but the staff are ****

2. Nissan Leaf 40kWh
Pros: more comfortable at motorway speeds; reliability (although a few surveys I found online said otherwise)
Cons: range; infotainment; dealership is miles away; CHAdeMO

Edited to add: must have climate control, cruise control (normal or adaptive) and folding mirrors.

Any and all advice and suggestions welcome.

VW e-Up!

Reactions: 1

shikoku14

· #98 · 4 mo ago

HarryA said:
VW e-Up!

Or save a couple of grand and get the Seat Mii

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BillTheButcher

Discussion Starter · #99 · 4 mo ago

HarryA said:
VW e-Up!

shikoku14 said:
Or save a couple of grand and get the Seat Mii

I think the e-Up was suggested earlier in this thread. I did this same commute in my old Up GTI for a while. Based on that experience, I'd put the Up (and the Mii) in the same category as the Swift: great little cars but not designed or built for motorway use.

Reactions: 1

GarryL

· #100 · 4 mo ago

Stinsy said:
On the other hand it is becoming common for rapid charging facilities that do offer ChaDeMo to have only a single ChaDeMo bay and that bay is shared with CCS. If that bay is blocked you’re out of luck.

No, that's becoming less common. Initially most rapid chargers were lone units, all supporting Chademo, so the default was a single Chademo. Now multiple unit roll-outs are increasing, either with all units supporting Chademo, or a decent number.

You are probably thinking specifically of GridServe, where Chademo support did sometimes go backwards for a while. I think they admitted that the paltry Chademo support at some of the sites they 'upgraded' first was a mistake and are now trying to rectify as they increase capacity. Plus, as they roll out dual charging and usually have dual bays per charger, even for the sites that are still just one Chademo, it's less of a problem than it was (in that case, the CCS car doesn't block the Chademo one -- in fact, the Chademo car can start charging before the next waiting CCS car as long as they can park close enough).

Stinsy said:
If you own a ChaDeMo car I wouldn’t sweat too much and certainly this is no reason to quickly sell your car. However I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy a ChaDeMo car if they’re planning to rapid-charge.

That's overly pessimistic for most people. However, someone who is buying a Leaf for the long-term should realistically assess the risk and factor it in to the decision. I still bought my Leaf, even though I like to keep cars for many years, and I feel that, realistically, the level of risk was priced into what I paid for what is, in most respects, one of the better all-rounder BEVs.

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