Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
907 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I saw a Fully Charged Show video on Cleevely and how they can fit a Muxsan range extender battery in the boot. I have a 2016 30kWh Leaf and was wondering how does the range extender work with regards to charging? From a simple user perspective, does it behave as if it was one big battery?

Hoping that I don't have to separately charge each battery or if the dash does some weird stuff like the SOC and range only takes into account the main battery.

When charging, does it charge both batteries in parallel or does it do them one after the other? Which battery charges first?

And with regards to the rapidgate issue on the 30kWh, will it improve the rapid charging ability, stay the same or make it worse?
 

· Read Only
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
And with regards to the rapidgate issue on the 30kWh, will it improve the rapid charging ability, stay the same or make it worse?
The 30kWh has rapidgate? Mine certainly didn't! I could rapid charge 10 times in a day, have the battery temperature in the red zone and still be charging at full speed. The only time it would slow down is if the temperature gague was completely full - Acceleration, regen and charging rates would be limited a little. Likewise if it was exceptionally cold it would start off slow but then increase.

The rapid charge ability of that car was one of the best. It seemed to rapid charge at full speed to a pretty high SOC, and not be influenced by many external factors at all.

#RapidGate was only something that came to light upon the release of the 40kWh model, especially with the early examples having over-cautious software that would try to protect the battery by slowing down the charge speeds much earlier, as well as making multiple rapid charges in succession increasingly slow too. If you are experiencing this in your 30 then there may be a fault with your vehicle. The complaints about your car were always very much the opposite, that the battery was allowed to overheat and suffer from early and accelerated degradation.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
When charging, does it charge both batteries in parallel or does it do them one after the other? Which battery charges first?

And with regards to the rapidgate issue on the 30kWh, will it improve the rapid charging ability, stay the same or make it worse?
My understanding of it is that the extender charges and discharges at the same time as the main pack, and they do some man-in-the-middle tweaks between the main pack's charge controller and the car. From a user's perspective, you shouldn't need to worry about it. Not sure how it would show up on Leafspy, which might not be able to get battery voltage or temperatures from the extender pack.
If you can find a charger that puts out 50kW (many are 43kW but labelled as 50kW), then the current going into the main battery is reduced because some of that is going into the extender. Likewise, when you draw high current under accelation, the load on the main pack is less. As such, battery overheating is reduced, so if you regularly do roadtrips, then you'd notice that the battery temperature doesn't rise as fast. Because the battery temperature doesn't rise as fast, you can probably rapid charge more often before it starts to slow the charge rate due to the battery getting too hot.
 

· Super Moderator
Public Transportation + Bicycle
Joined
·
13,792 Posts
@Mike Schooling had concerns and perhaps a warning about the Muxan extender. There was a thread some time ago. I don't recall the details.

Here is the thread --> Battery upgrades - A cause for concern

It was not specifically about Muxan but they are mentioned.

Muxan also responded in that thread -- I suggest you read it.
 

· Read Only
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
Sorry, bad use of the term rapid gate. I never really saw a huge slow down on my Leaf, it was more the escalating battery temp after 2 to 3 successive rapid charges.
In that sense I don't imagine anything would change by getting an extender fitted. You're simply adding more battery cells elsewhere in the car which will not really impact the main pack, and the extra should probably behave very similarly to what you have. Take into account that this will give you more range therefore less charge sessions to complete a longer journey so a little less heat to build up.

The LEAF Completely lacks any active thermal management of the battery pack so unlike most other EVs out there, heat will continue to build up and there isn't much you can do about it. Unless you're regularly doing super long journeys and rapid charging repeatedly, I would say the car is still up to the job. If it is a regular thing though, it may be better to consider a new, more capable EV rather than spending money on extending the range of your current one.
 

· Registered
MG5 LR, Nissan LEAF 24 and various old ICE
Joined
·
11,768 Posts
I saw a Fully Charged Show video on Cleevely and how they can fit a Muxsan range extender battery in the boot. I have a 2016 30kWh Leaf and was wondering how does the range extender work with regards to charging? From a simple user perspective, does it behave as if it was one big battery?
Sort of - there is only a single connection to make using the normal AC or DC connection.
Hoping that I don't have to separately charge each battery or if the dash does some weird stuff like the SOC and range only takes into account the main battery.
The Muxsan software on the CANBridge takes account of all of that.
When charging, does it charge both batteries in parallel or does it do them one after the other? Which battery charges first?
The batteries have different characteristics but fundamentally charge at the same time as they are in parallel.
And with regards to the rapidgate issue on the 30kWh, will it improve the rapid charging ability, stay the same or make it worse?
As above #Rapidgate was a software control to limit the charging rate at higher battery temperatures on the 40kWh cars. The 30kWh just continues to overheat its battery .....

The additional battery capacity reduces the effective charge and discharge on the standard pack hence reducing the problem but not eliminating it.

Not sure how it would show up on Leafspy, which might not be able to get battery voltage or temperatures from the extender pack.
LEAFSpy has been tweaked to pick up the additional capacity, and the voltage is the same for the two packs as they are in parallel, but there is no access to the battery temperature for the additional pack via LEAFSpy.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
907 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@Mike Schooling had concerns and perhaps a warning about the Muxan extender. There was a thread some time ago. I don't recall the details.

Here is the thread --> Battery upgrades - A cause for concern

It was not specifically about Muxan but they are mentioned.

Muxan also responded in that thread -- I suggest you read it.
Thanks for that, I had a read and totally understand the concerns. I read Muxsan's reply and it seems like they're doing the responsible thing. I have no way of knowing for sure but the fact they took time to reply and explain things in detail is a good sign.

Having a look at Cleevely, they offer an ability to replace a 30kWh Leaf battery with the 62kWh. That'll be awesome.
 

· Registered
Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
Joined
·
2,923 Posts
The 30kWh has rapidgate? Mine certainly didn't! I could rapid charge 10 times in a day, have the battery temperature in the red zone and still be charging at full speed.
I’ve seen charge speed drop to 20kW when battery was on red. Under normal circumstances it charges from 15% to 97% in 30 mins but in the one instance it added 30% in over 45 mins

Next morning when it was cooler and battery managed to cool overnight it charged as usual


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
Joined
·
2,923 Posts
The extender pack battery discharge curve is different to that of the main pack from what I’ve read (there’s a muxan video about it too)

Yes they charge in parallel and discharge in parallel. During discharging main pack discharge more initially and extender pack takes over as voltage drops


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Here is the report that we draw up following our visit to your workshops on Wednesday, October 26, 2022 for the addition of a battery extender (33 kWh) in the rear trunk (Battery extender) of our Leaf.

I must deplore several bugs and not the least!

"1° First bug: you had asked to show up this Wednesday well before 10am in the morning to make sure that the Leaf leaves (fully loaded on site) before 5pm.
Cf. Excerpt from your email of July 12th: “ Installatie duurt een hele dag. We ontvangen de auto graag vóór 10:00 ’s ochtends, dan kunt u om 17:00 wegrijden met een omgebouwde auto. Bij installatie inclusief een trekhaak ontvangen we de auto graag vóór 8:30 of moet u rekening houden met iets uitlopende werkzaamheden. »
“ We hebben een snellader bij ons bedrijf staan waarmee de auto kosteloos kan worden bijgeladen. U kunt de auto dus leegrijden onderweg naar ons toe, als dat u tijd bespaart. De auto wordt met een full accu afgeleverd. »

It is therefore well indicated that you can also arrive BEFORE 8:30 am, which I did when I arrived a little before 8:00 am; I entered through the pedestrian door to the right of the mechanical shutter (entrance of the cars). It is the boss of ALMAZ who is the only one present and who is surprised that there was no one from MUXSAN yet: would they have forgotten me?

During the phone call at 8:15 am at the MUXSAN office (at another location in The Hague), I came across an answering machine. Another try at 9 o’clock and this time someone tells me not to understand why the staff is always absent. . .

Finally, the secretary (embarrassed) arrives (finally) around 9. 30 am and then the entire staff (dropwise) around 10 am, but gets to work without hurrying at all!

In an awkward attempt to explain such a delay, the secretary gives me as a pretext for arriving so late, given the week of school holidays in progress when there is objectively no connection!

All this "beautiful world" starts to work very cool; I return around 14:30. I'm worried about the state of progress and I remember that the company had promised that I would leave with a full tank before 5pm.
At 4:30 pm, the adaptation is (finally) finished and after having loaded at 30% (enough to do 100 km at most), one of the attendants tells me that, considering the hour (5 pm), I have to leave, which I refuse calmly but firmly (reminding the contract: I then left at 6 pm with a reserve of 270 km; it is in fact, much less than the 40% displayed).

2° Second bug: the recharge carried out at your place in one hour and a half erroneously displayed 40% and 270 km of autonomy; indeed, very quickly and in a few kilometers, the indication of reserve fell to 240 km and so on.

N’ayant pas eu le temps promis pourtant de faire une recharge complète chez vous et s’ajoutant au fait que vous ne m'avez pas averti que lors d’une première charge, l’indication affichée de l’autonomie était très largement surestimée m’a obligé à faire une recharge intermédiaire à la même station que la veille (Brecht près de Anvers), ce qui a duré 110 minutes (pour arriver seulement à <12 kWh de recharge ! cf. P. S. ) : j'ai pu repartir à 21h30, mais vu le poids accru de la voiture ajouté à ce qui s'est avéré comme une erreur de l'ordi de bord (qui s'est auto-corrigée ce jeudi après charge à 80%), j’ai constaté que la réserve fondait comme neige au soleil et j'ai entrepris alors de prendre le chemin des écoliers (pas d'autoroute) et vitesse à environ 40 km/h quand c'était possible. I don't tell you with the numerous and long red lights. . .

Unfortunate consequences: I arrived home at midnight thirty with 30 km of reserve, flashing lights and voice mail as a bonus!

In fact, the reserve thus falsely displayed 270 km of reserve starting from Brecht on Wednesday evening after 110 minutes of charge (40% of the capacity displayed but incorrectly loaded, hence melting like snow!).

In fact, I noticed (but you could have told me) that it was necessary to reach a first level of charge (80%) to display a realistic range score and in this case I reached 343 km/h (at 80% load) of displayed range on Thursday evening, testifying to the refreshing of the on-board computer that must have been found. “panic” since the car could charge beyond what it had been calibrated for. . .

3° Third bug: I pointed out to the staff that the box that had been added to hide the batteries (in the trunk) was moving at the rear (bad fixing) but nothing was done to correct the problem. This results in unpleasant shock noises on bad surfaces (road).

4° Fourth bug: when I handed over the negative terminal of the battery 12 (front trunk side), I noticed that the tightening had not been done. Probably because, I thought, it would be tight at the end. Yet in the end, fearing that they would close the trunk"
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Continuation :

4° Fourth bug: when I handed over the negative terminal of the battery 12 (front trunk side), I noticed that the tightening had not been done. Probably because, I thought, it would be tight at the end. However, in the end, fearing that the front trunk would be closed, I finally had to point out that it had to be squeezed, which was done. I imagine intermittent contacts due to the irregularities of the road and that could cause serious damage and in any case, a serious breakdown blocking me on the road in the middle of the night!
I found that your technical staff was finally behaving too relaxed, which explains this.

5° Fifth bug: the charge at home is far too slow and it would have taken at least four hours to get a full charge. How could you then promise the following: “We hebben een snellader bij ons bedrijf staan waarmee de auto kosteloos kan worden bijgeladen. U kunt de auto dus leegrijden onderweg naar ons toe, als dat u tijd bespaart. De auto wordt met een full accu afgeleverd. » ?

On your website (https://www. muxsan. com/English/faq. html), it is indicated that a battery extension takes about 5 to 6 hours (“Extender battery installations take approx. 5-6 hours”) https://www. muxsan. com/English/faq. html so if you started only at 9. 30am you could still finish between 2. 30pm and 2. 30pm, whereas the car was only finished at 9. 30pm.
4:30 p. m. and it was only then that it had to be loaded. Starting around 8:30 a. m. , you could have finished at 1:30 p. m. which would allow you to fully recharge the battery before 5 p. m. and save me from having to do a (slow) charge along the way (110 minutes) and not be able to get home until midnight and a half.

6° Sixth bug: you should know that replacing the springs in order to restore the car’s normal attitude causes a slight change in the rear height; you know this all the better because you’ve been making such changes on the Leaf since the start.
In fact, I had to drive with dipped-beam headlamps whose horizon was too low (no correction possible via the knob at the bottom of the dashboard), which is a factor of insecurity.
You should therefore have a device on site that allows you to adjust the headlights accordingly.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top