Given that this has been going on for a couple of years now and no one else has taken the market there is probably a good reason. My suspicion is that it will be overtaken by 40kWh upgrades once the bugs are out of the electronics that allow the unit to be swapped whole rather than the internals swapped, but judging by Dala's experience it's still at an alpha stage.
Muxsan We Need Your Services Now
This guy has some range extenders for the Leaf 2014. When is he going to become a businessman and get on with it. Raise finance, get distributors, build diy packs. Many of us want this capability. He should hook up with a venture capital company, hire some techys and get his product to market. Anyone else as frustrated as me about this?
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
It's Muxsan with an s and he is commercialising it: MUXSAN - EV Equipment
He has a YouTube channel with updates, sounds like he is making progress.
He has a YouTube channel with updates, sounds like he is making progress.
If it is so easy, you could give it a bash yourself.
What is the investment required, homologation, market, profit turn over, etc., which a VC would require before investment?
What is the investment required, homologation, market, profit turn over, etc., which a VC would require before investment?
I've launched several companies and floated one on Three stock exchanges. At 72 why 're invent MuxSans obvious talent. He's hiding it under a bushel.
How so 'obvious'?
Fine words and promises ≠ talent
Fine words and promises ≠ talent
I suggest that you contact @Jite and @whereswally606 who have both successfully used Muxsan's services. They will be able to comment on the results, costs and production readiness of the service.
Why not then consider offering your experience and contacts to gear it up?
Why not then consider offering your experience and contacts to gear it up?
I suggest that you contact @Jite and @whereswally606 who have both successfully used Muxsan's services. They will be able to comment on the results, costs and production readiness of the service.
Why not then consider offering your experience and contacts to gear
Hi
Thanks, good idea, will do.
Thanks, good idea, will do.
@Mike Murray, I am not convinced that investment is what is holding Emile back. What I personally would be sad about is if outside investment increased the cost of the extender beyond what people would be willing to or could afford to pay for it and thus left us with a world with even fewer upgraded leaf,env200s and eventually other EVs.
Nor do I believe he is hiding his talent, he does reasonably frequent youtube clips and newsletters of progress.
I am happy with how Muxsan is looking to expand. Also I think DIY packs is a bloody awful idea. Your average tinkerer is not trained to work on lethal 400v batteries and I could see one court case sinking the company before it was able to make significant change. They are looking to opensource the MITM hardware which should mean that anyone who has the technical knowledge to reverse the canbus messages could reproduce his result writing their own softwares. one such example is Dala and his Nordic EV repair business.
This model might not be what you would think is the best way forward given your opening post but it is the one that keeps it most affordable to the masses.
Paid about £4950 for the 17.6kwh. My opinion at this moment is that there is not enough feedback to the user about the extender batteries health/state of charge. The leaf spy app tells you all you need to know about the individual cell voltages of the original car's pack. I would like to see similar for the extender pack and a real time monitor on the current going in and out of the extender pack. I think such a thing is being worked on by Muxsan so I am not overly concerned. For existing UK customers at this time such a feature might only be included with a return visit which is recommended by Emile once a year as a checkup anyway. This does mean a short holiday to Rotterdam once a year.
Nor do I believe he is hiding his talent, he does reasonably frequent youtube clips and newsletters of progress.
I am happy with how Muxsan is looking to expand. Also I think DIY packs is a bloody awful idea. Your average tinkerer is not trained to work on lethal 400v batteries and I could see one court case sinking the company before it was able to make significant change. They are looking to opensource the MITM hardware which should mean that anyone who has the technical knowledge to reverse the canbus messages could reproduce his result writing their own softwares. one such example is Dala and his Nordic EV repair business.
This model might not be what you would think is the best way forward given your opening post but it is the one that keeps it most affordable to the masses.
Paid about £4950 for the 17.6kwh. My opinion at this moment is that there is not enough feedback to the user about the extender batteries health/state of charge. The leaf spy app tells you all you need to know about the individual cell voltages of the original car's pack. I would like to see similar for the extender pack and a real time monitor on the current going in and out of the extender pack. I think such a thing is being worked on by Muxsan so I am not overly concerned. For existing UK customers at this time such a feature might only be included with a return visit which is recommended by Emile once a year as a checkup anyway. This does mean a short holiday to Rotterdam once a year.
How does the car behave with the additional weight?
I haven't noticed a change, It has uprated springs to cope and if anything is a touch lower leading to better aero but it hasn't been a concern to me.
@Mike Murray, I am not convinced that investment is what is holding Emile back. What I personally would be sad about is if outside investment increased the cost of the extender beyond what people would be willing to or could afford to pay for it and thus left us with a world with even fewer upgraded leaf,env200s and eventually other EVs.
Nor do I believe he is hiding his talent, he does reasonably frequent youtube clips and newsletters of progress.
I am happy with how Muxsan is looking to expand. Also I think DIY packs is a bloody awful idea. Your average tinkerer is not trained to work on lethal 400v batteries and I could see one court case sinking the company before it was able to make significant change. They are looking to opensource the MITM hardware which should mean that anyone who has the technical knowledge to reverse the canbus messages could reproduce his result writing their own softwares. one such example is Dala and his Nordic EV repair business.
This model might not be what you would think is the best way forward given your opening post but it is the one that keeps it most affordable to the masses.
Paid about £4950 for the 17.6kwh. My opinion at this moment is that there is not enough feedback to the user about the extender batteries health/state of charge. The leaf spy app tells you all you need to know about the individual cell voltages of the original car's pack. I would like to see similar for the extender pack and a real time monitor on the current going in and out of the extender pack. I think such a thing is being worked on by Muxsan so I am not overly concerned. For existing UK customers at this time such a feature might only be included with a return visit which is recommended by Emile once a year as a checkup anyway. This does mean a short holiday to Rotterdam once a year.
[/QU
Thanks for the detailed reply, much appreciated. I think your right, my understanding was that the cost was 3,000 Euro's, What I think we all need is a protected plug in extender that we can throw in the boot when needed and charge separately. Some guy last year (not that long ago) boasted that he had invented an extender based on an Aluminium battery with a one off range of 1500 miles, whereupon you just exchange it at the super market for another one!!. He's gone quiet too. Most of us are fine with 24Kwh most of the time, we just need a booster pack now and again.
Roll on silicone batteries. Exciting times but slow evolution.
Roll on silicone batteries. Exciting times but slow evolution.
How strong are you?What I think we all need is a protected plug in extender that we can throw in the boot when needed and charge separately.
@cah197, I think Mike was actually bang on with his last point. I too believe a temporary extender like the au air one would be perfect and it could easily be modular so to be put easily into a converted truck space in sections and wired up to complete voltage.
@Mike Murray cost is less for the 8kwh one but I don't know what exactly.
I don't think the au air battery is snake oil just that it is backed by Morris cars and will require distribution through supermarkets and such which takes time. I think the future is bright when you combine some of the things that will be available soon.
in the meanwhile there is a lot you can do to get your 24kwh to got further without such major mods.
@Mike Murray cost is less for the 8kwh one but I don't know what exactly.
I don't think the au air battery is snake oil just that it is backed by Morris cars and will require distribution through supermarkets and such which takes time. I think the future is bright when you combine some of the things that will be available soon.
in the meanwhile there is a lot you can do to get your 24kwh to got further without such major mods.
Put a big, heavy battery in the boot? Surely that is counter intuitive as the time many people need more range is on a long trip where they need the luggage space?
The other big aspect is safety - a large battery hitting occupants or catching fire in a crash would not end well! I guess some crash testing would verify if it was secured well enough.
The other big aspect is safety - a large battery hitting occupants or catching fire in a crash would not end well! I guess some crash testing would verify if it was secured well enough.
Can you even have safe, idiot proof, quick release connectors with 400 Volts?@cah197, I think Mike was actually bang on with his last point. I too believe a temporary extender like the au air one would be perfect and it could easily be modular so to be put easily into a converted truck space in sections and wired up to complete voltage.
The real issue will be cost. If the difference between a ZOE 22 kWh and a ZOE 40 kWh is £4K second hand (for instance), why would anyone bother with a conversion kit like this at even £3k?
@cah197 those numbers look like they are for zoes with lease batteries which personally I would never entertain buying. but for used leafs the economics are a little different.
cheapest ebay 40kwh right now is £19650
cheapest ebay 30kwh is £9895
muxsan'd 24kwh range is akin to a 35kwh
muxsan'd 30kwh range is akin to 41kwh
my 24kwh leaf cost me £6000 and the extender another £5000 so £11,000, it also doesn't rapidgate I think the economics for me stack up. To buy the same amount of range in a used leaf second hand I would have to spend £8650 more.
for a leaf 30 owner
leaf 30kwh + Muxsan non beta list price + hull ferry trip = leaf 41kwh muxsan cost
£9865 + £5500 + £500 = £15865
that is still £3850 less.
as for idiot proof connectors ccs and chademo are currently our idiot proof 400v connectors. I suppose I am not thinking about idiots doing this but I don't see why it technically couldn't be achieved in the future.
I can appreciate this isn't for everyone there is risk involved and a few unknowns regarding how much you can sell and extended car for. Also one thing to consider is that my insurance know about the extender but they do not cover it. if I end up having the car written off and the battery is damaged then it is a total loss (for whatever can not be salvaged). I think if you go down this route with your eyes open to those realities you wont lose out.
cheapest ebay 40kwh right now is £19650
cheapest ebay 30kwh is £9895
muxsan'd 24kwh range is akin to a 35kwh
muxsan'd 30kwh range is akin to 41kwh
my 24kwh leaf cost me £6000 and the extender another £5000 so £11,000, it also doesn't rapidgate I think the economics for me stack up. To buy the same amount of range in a used leaf second hand I would have to spend £8650 more.
for a leaf 30 owner
leaf 30kwh + Muxsan non beta list price + hull ferry trip = leaf 41kwh muxsan cost
£9865 + £5500 + £500 = £15865
that is still £3850 less.
as for idiot proof connectors ccs and chademo are currently our idiot proof 400v connectors. I suppose I am not thinking about idiots doing this but I don't see why it technically couldn't be achieved in the future.
I can appreciate this isn't for everyone there is risk involved and a few unknowns regarding how much you can sell and extended car for. Also one thing to consider is that my insurance know about the extender but they do not cover it. if I end up having the car written off and the battery is damaged then it is a total loss (for whatever can not be salvaged). I think if you go down this route with your eyes open to those realities you wont lose out.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
A community for enthusiasts of all makes and models of EV from BMW to Tesla, Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and more. Join the electrifying discussion today!
Full Forum Listing
Recommended Communities
