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Discussion Starter #1
The Octopus Agile tariff has really piqued my interest in time of use tariffs.

Whilst you could grab bits and pieces of historical data from Octopus it was a bit limited. ie it didn't show all DNO areas and wasn't complete back to Feb 2018.

So i've written a few scripts and pulled all the data in to one place.

  • All 30 minute data from all 14 DNOs going to back to the first day of the Agile tariff (Feb 19th 2018).
  • The data also updates at 5pm each day after Octopus have released their next day's figures.
I've then layered Grafana graphs on top so you can visualise the data yourself.

Plus, there is a Google Spreadsheet with all the historical data on.

Home - Energy Stats

Would be interested in people's thoughts on the project.
What could be done better?
What else would people like to see in terms of graphs?
Is this stuff useful?

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good stuff, can you add the 'Outgoing' data? :)
Without a doubt that is the next step...... super excited to see that data.

Although I only saw your post on the subject today, so will take a wee while to code it up. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?
 

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I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?
What would be the payback period though? the tariff seems around 7p/kWh during daytimes now. I think it was around 12p during the winter daytime. It hit the heady heights of 33p a few times over winter, not sure I ever saw it get to 35p.

I did look at one of the bills and they appeared to take an average price/kWh over the 48 x 30 min slots, rather than calculate each individually eg (1.3x0.07)+(0.8x0.30).... etc I assumed it worked out to the same amount as I couldn't be bothered to total it up.
 

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Interesting and useful. We will probably end up on the Go tariff simply because it is easier to live with.

I assumed it worked out to the same amount
If I understand your post correctly, I'd be surprised if it did. The difference could be small depending on your usage.
 

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Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?
Whenever I've looked into it, GO wins out for simplicity and batteries don't make economic sense, for me.

Yesterday's spend on GO was:
Peak ~38p
Off peak ~23p

 

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The bottom line for anyone is that it's unlikely there will be a tariff that is best value for everyone. I keep track of Go and Agile and so far neither is better than E7 with Bulb for our pattern and level of consumption. Part of that is that, being low users, the standing charge makes a significant difference, part of it is that we need at least 6 hours of off-peak in order to be able to switch most of our consumption to that period. Having a fairly large PV array also impacts on the best value tariff, as that tends to offset both car charging for around 8 months of the year and also reduces peak rate consumption a fair bit.

The problem for many is probably wading through the crap and sales BS to actually pin down the true tariff (why do energy companies try hard to hide them?) and then translating that into estimated cost based on a known pattern of use through the year. The latter is probably the hardest part, unless you have been using energy monitoring for long enough to have built up a reasonably good model.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The bottom line for anyone is that it's unlikely there will be a tariff that is best value for everyone. I keep track of Go and Agile and so far neither is better than E7 with Bulb for our pattern and level of consumption. Part of that is that, being low users, the standing charge makes a significant difference, part of it is that we need at least 6 hours of off-peak in order to be able to switch most of our consumption to that period. Having a fairly large PV array also impacts on the best value tariff, as that tends to offset both car charging for around 8 months of the year and also reduces peak rate consumption a fair bit.

The problem for many is probably wading through the crap and sales BS to actually pin down the true tariff (why do energy companies try hard to hide them?) and then translating that into estimated cost based on a known pattern of use through the year. The latter is probably the hardest part, unless you have been using energy monitoring for long enough to have built up a reasonably good model.
Absolutely true Jeremy.

I'm lucky that I have both my own historical usage / generation data and now the Agile data.

But for Joe Public its going to be hard for them to work these Time of Use tariifs, especially if J.Public doesn't know that their kettle is rated at 2300W, let alone what their usage pattern is through the day.

Its going to take more than Gas and Lecky in those adverts to promote the true benefits of Time of Use tariffs and Smart Meters to Mr and Mrs Public.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Interesting and useful. We will probably end up on the Go tariff simply because it is easier to live with.
Thanks Andrew.

I'm hoping to add graphs for Go and new Outgoing export tariff in the coming weeks.

I think people seem to 'get' graphs easier than a bunch of numbers. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've added a simple single page showing what the Go tariff looks like in graph form as well as the current "out of the 5p four hour slot" pricing across the UK.

Octopus Go Tariff - Energy Stats
 

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On a related issue.... It looks as if UK wholesale electricity prices went zero/negative for more than 10h between 11:18 and 21:44 on Sunday (26th May). A combination of low bank-holiday Sunday demand and a breezy sunny day where wind and solar contributed over 50% of demand at times.

Data available here: Drax Electric Insights

Which begs the question of why the Agile Tariff was charging +10p kWh [in Yorkshire] at the time. A tidy 16.6p per kWh profit, not counting transmission / fixed costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
On a related issue.... It looks as if UK wholesale electricity prices went negative for around 10h between 11:47 and 21:26 on Sunday (26th May). A combination of low bank-holiday Sunday demand and a breezy sunny day where wind and solar contributed over 50% of demand at times.

Data available here: Drax Electric Insights

Which begs the question of why the Agile Tariff was charging +10p kWh [in Yorkshire] at the time. A tidy 16.6p per kWh profit, not counting transmission / fixed costs.
That site is brilliant..... love it, thanks!

Octopus release their prices for the next day at 5pm the day before.

They had really cheap prices on the 27th..... as low as 3p through the night and around 7p through most of the day.

Maybe it takes them a day to play catchup and massage their profits day-to-day?
 

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I've added a simple single page showing what the Go tariff looks like in graph form as well as the current "out of the 5p four hour slot" pricing across the UK.

Octopus Go Tariff - Energy Stats
North Wales and Merseyside is one of the most expensive regions on just about any tariff.

Agile is 6-8p when I might be charging the car. Go is 5p. About 40% of our total usage is charging the car.

I'd drive myself crazy avoiding the 25-35p peaks on agile.

It makes Go the easy choice for us. All I need to do is set the timer on the car and the dishwasher to save £20-£25 a month. (I'm on Ecotrcity now)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
North Wales and Merseyside is one of the most expensive regions on just about any tariff.

Agile is 6-8p when I might be charging the car. Go is 5p. About 40% of our total usage is charging the car.

I'd drive myself crazy avoiding the 25-35p peaks on agile.

It makes Go the easy choice for us. All I need to do is set the timer on the car and the dishwasher to save £20-£25 a month. (I'm on Ecotrcity now)
Sounds like a great plan switching to Go for your circumstance. :)

Get what you're saying about the variability of Agile and that peak........ With PV, i'm hoping to cover lots of that period for large parts of the year.
 

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Which begs the question of why the Agile Tariff was charging +10p kWh [in Yorkshire] at the time. A tidy 16.6p per kWh profit, not counting transmission / fixed costs.
From the site above, to answer your begging question:

The data shows prices on the wholesale spot market, for power bought at the time of delivery. Electricity prices are given in pounds per MWh, as given by Elexon. Note that £10/MWh = 1 pence/kWh. These are the raw prices for electricity generation, and do not include fees for transmission, balancing and distribution, taxes and green levies.
 

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I've been watching the variability of the wholesale half-hourly spot price market for a couple of years now, as it's clear that this variability, and the risk it passes on to suppliers, is the primary reason for moving to "smart" metering and variable rate tariffs, like Agile.

One concern I have is that consumers will find it extremely hard to compare deals from one supplier to another once they all adopt variable pricing, like Agile. I keep a pretty good data set of our consumption, through the day and across a couple of years. Even so I find it pretty hard to try and assess which tariff provides better value. I can't begin to imagine how challenging it will be to do this once we have a range of competing variable rate tariffs, and rather suspect that we'll end up with a very confusing market where no one will be able to easily see who provides best value.
 

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I've been watching the variability of the wholesale half-hourly spot price market for a couple of years now, as it's clear that this variability, and the risk it passes on to suppliers, is the primary reason for moving to "smart" metering and variable rate tariffs, like Agile.

One concern I have is that consumers will find it extremely hard to compare deals from one supplier to another once they all adopt variable pricing, like Agile. I keep a pretty good data set of our consumption, through the day and across a couple of years. Even so I find it pretty hard to try and assess which tariff provides better value. I can't begin to imagine how challenging it will be to do this once we have a range of competing variable rate tariffs, and rather suspect that we'll end up with a very confusing market where no one will be able to easily see who provides best value.
I agree but I am sure that Auto Sergei is on the case.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce an update to my little home-brew website; Go versus Agile

This was actually a feature request from a user so I was happy to oblige.

There are two new graphs for each of the 14 UK regions.

1. Go versus Agile (00:30 to 04:30 only) for the last 365 days
2. Last 7 days of full daily pricing from both tariffs

Octopus Go versus Agile - Energy Stats UK

I think if you have an EV then Go seems to win hands down with its fixed 5p for 4 hours each and every day.

If you have Solar PV and/or maybe a battery that can get you over the 4pm to 7pm period then I think Agile could well be the cheaper option?

But everyone has different usage patterns and configurations, so ultimately the decision is up to you.

These 'time of use' tariffs in conjunction with smart meters are surely the future of electricity provision?

Hope you are finding this data useful? Please let me know your thoughts etc. Or if you see any issues/problems.

Hoping to add some more features in the coming weeks. Next up I want to look at the new Outgoing / Export tariffs.

Cheers.
 
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