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Discussion Starter #1
I have just switched to Outfox who claim their energy is Green
How can that be and is it right for them to claim this?

We ought not kid ourselves in thinking any of these outfits springing up all over the shop offer anything other than a middle man function, there is absolutely no way they have control over their offerings

Statements like 100% green just do not stack up and I suspect we will soon see the ASA stamp out this sales technique just like they had to with mythical broadband speeds.

Please educate me otherwise but I believe the wholesale market does not work like that. My Gas and Electricity will continue to be provided by Manweb from whenever they choose to get it from regardless of the agent I am using as the payment collector.

If you are on the National Grid then the link in my sig gives a true idea of where all of our Electricity for I suspect most of us is coming from at any given time.

I appreciate proper firms like Ecotricity may produce a Green product but there is no way if I paid them for it that I am getting any of it directly so it all seems to be a bit of a con to me

Discuss.
 

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I have just switched to Outfox who claim their energy is Green
How can that be and is it right for them to claim this?

We ought not kid ourselves in thinking any of these outfits springing up all over the shop offer anything other than a middle man function, there is absolutely no way they have control over their offerings

Statements like 100% green just do not stack up and I suspect we will soon see the ASA stamp out this sales technique just like they had to with mythical broadband speeds.

Please educate me otherwise but I believe the wholesale market does not work like that. My Gas and Electricity will continue to be provided by Manweb from whenever they choose to get it from regardless of the agent I am using as the payment collector.

If you are on the National Grid then the link in my sig gives a true idea of where all of our Electricity for I suspect most of us is coming from at any given time.

I appreciate proper firms like Ecotricity may produce a Green product but there is no way if I paid them for it that I am getting any of it directly so it all seems to be a bit of a con to me

Discuss.
You mean they don’t deliver your electricty in Jerry cans or connect you up to their own National Grid?!? :)

What they mean is they only buy green energy at the wholesale end, which ends up in the ‘dirty pool’ of energy.

Theoretically if everyone bought green energy the whole grid would be green.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This cropped after a particularly weird conversation I had with my retired neighbours

They had misunderstood during a switching process they had to have a smart meter fitted so that they could be certain the green energy was directed to their home.

That infers someone somewhere had planted that idea.

It took a while for them to get to grips with the fact it was nothing of the sort and it was simply the T&Cs of their new supplier dictating the new Meters

My point is I fear lots of people genuinely think they are choosing a green supply as a result of the claims made in the sales pitches online.
 

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I appreciate proper firms like Ecotricity may produce a Green product but there is no way if I paid them for it that I am getting any of it directly so it all seems to be a bit of a con to me
What would you gain by having green electricity delivered to your home?

By choosing a green provider you are effectively sponsoring someone to match the power you use with power generated by renewables. Where that power goes is irrelevant. All you need to know is that you're increasing the amount of green sourced energy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
At what point does it become a bit iffy. Let's say 50% of uk consumers switch to green providers or perhaps have already yet green energy makes up only around 10% of the overall supply. Those are just figures for this example not reality.

I guess I am looking to validate the supplier I have chosen truly is doing what they claim, and I am not sure how to do that.
 

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At what point does it become a bit iffy. Let's say 50% of uk consumers switch to green providers or perhaps have already yet green energy makes up only around 10% of the overall supply. Those are just figures for this example not reality.

I guess I am looking to validate the supplier I have chosen truly is doing what they claim, and I am not sure how to do that.
There’s already a certification scheme run by Ofgen. If you think you’re being ripped off then speak to them.

'How do I know if green electricity is really green?'
 

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50% can't switch to 100%. The suppliers will stop taking new customers when they reach 10%..
However this 10% can be bought at strike rate by normal suppliers, so these companies have to pay over strike as your request for renewables forces them to buy from RE only.
However that profit and demand will push new renewables onto the grid allowing more customers...this is what you are doing when you sign up to a 100% renewable supplier.

I think the 10% is at max capacity, so although that is the max "100%" customers, at time other than winter evenings most customers are payingg for RE in Thier electric mix.
 

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I view the grid as a big water tower, with a hose running to my house. When I turn on my tap, water comes out. I have to pay someone to replace whatever I take. I can chose to pay someone with a big brown watering can to top it back up, or someone with a nice green one.

Sure, the people carrying the water cans didn’t -make- the water in the cans, but they are buying it from someone who did, and over time market forces willmake more green sellers appear.
 

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Just get a microscope and read off the place and date that your electrons have stamped on them. (You will need an 'electron microscope' :LOL:)

Presumably OFGEM monitors the total renewable energy generated and the amount claimed to be sold as renewable, and is happy so long as those two numbers are similar?
 

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Just get a microscope and read off the place and date that your electrons have stamped on them. (You will need an 'electron microscope' :LOL:)

Presumably OFGEM monitors the total renewable energy generated and the amount claimed to be sold as renewable, and is happy so long as those two numbers are similar?
Exactly. Time of year and time of day don’t match up yet, but they will more as more generation comes online
 

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As noted above, buying "green energy" isn't a complete waste of time, it's a useful "market signal" to help get more renewables on the national grid.
 

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I have just switched to Outfox who claim their energy is Green
How can that be and is it right for them to claim this?

We ought not kid ourselves in thinking any of these outfits springing up all over the shop offer anything other than a middle man function, there is absolutely no way they have control over their offerings

Statements like 100% green just do not stack up and I suspect we will soon see the ASA stamp out this sales technique just like they had to with mythical broadband speeds.

Please educate me otherwise but I believe the wholesale market does not work like that. My Gas and Electricity will continue to be provided by Manweb from whenever they choose to get it from regardless of the agent I am using as the payment collector.

If you are on the National Grid then the link in my sig gives a true idea of where all of our Electricity for I suspect most of us is coming from at any given time.

I appreciate proper firms like Ecotricity may produce a Green product but there is no way if I paid them for it that I am getting any of it directly so it all seems to be a bit of a con to me

Discuss.
Quite simply Outfox buy all their power from Dong (now Orsted) who are solely a renewable generator; on this basis you can be confident all your power use is balanced by them from a renewable source.
 

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In my mind electricity has similarities to money in this context.
You don't consider the salary put into your bank account being suspect just because money is also pumped into the global system by drug lords and pedophiles, do you?

Even though you haven't received (presumably) your salary directly, physically, in a brown envelope directly from your employer there is still a contract between you that says that it was your Employers money that was given to you in an electronic/digital format.

Same with the Green Energy, the contract states that your provider created a certain amount of it and you received it in the other end. Never mind that electricity is also generated by less savoury players on the market, it's just a medium, like money.
 

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@Keith Alexander hows the outfoxed going? Just had a look and for 100% renewable with Dong (who have the massive wind farm off Liverpool coast) it looks cheaper (which being a born and bred Yorkshire woman is always a bonus, I love saving money).

I’m with Ecotricity at the mo and trying to reduce bills (so I can save for a leaf 40 next year ;-)). ALthough Ecotricity have reduced their kWh from 17p to 13p since Jan (which is much better).

Will only save me £20 a month though if I change so you know... not 100% sure, but, it all adds up.
 

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@Keith Alexander hows the outfoxed going? Just had a look and for 100% renewable with Dong (who have the massive wind farm off Liverpool coast) it looks cheaper (which being a born and bred Yorkshire woman is always a bonus, I love saving money).

I’m with Ecotricity at the mo and trying to reduce bills (so I can save for a leaf 40 next year ;-)). ALthough Ecotricity have reduced their kWh from 17p to 13p since Jan (which is much better).

Will only save me £20 a month though if I change so you know... not 100% sure, but, it all adds up.
I bailed on Ecotricity last year after having signed up in September 2016 - by February 2017 they had raised prices three times, totaling about an 18% increase, I seem to recall. I switched to Bulb, who source only "green energy" (mostly from Hydro, I believe) and whose prices were noticeably better than Ecotricity.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So far outfox have been fine. Ultimately they are like all of them only billing agents The Email reminder for my first reading did not arrive but the rest have. I am on their variable tariff so I do keep an eye out for alternatives because their good electricity rate may not last or the already comparatively expensive gas rate could become too expensive .
 

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I'm still with Ecotricity on the grounds that they at least claim to be ploughing the money back into additional renewable generation. My cynical nature tends to assume that most small 100% renewable tariffs are simply hoovering up the renewable part of the grid which would otherwise have been bought up in any case for the non-renewable tariffs. That's fine, and I'm sure it's good that they are producing more of a market for renewables at some slight premium, but if the net result is simply a displacement such that the renewable percentage paid for by my non-green neighbours goes down slightly then there is very little overall gain.

Plus of course if there's a windy day followed by a calm day I may use electricity on each of those days but my supplier simply buys it all on the windy day (it may not work exactly like that, but a monthly meter read doesn't tell them exactly when I'm using the energy, so at best it's going to be averaged out).
 

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As long as by buying from Green providers it truly increases the number of green watering cans then great.

My issue is because so much of our energy is low carbon, green energy providers don't have to increase the number of green watering cans until a far bigger % of the population are using green energy. Until then nothing needs to change.

Luckily wind farms are going up all the time, but I would love to know if it has anything to do with the number of green energy providers.
 
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