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Discussion Starter #1
I've just had an explanation for the reason the Model S onboard navigation (Nav) differs from the map shown on the centre console following a query over on the Tesla UK Facebook page. The map is updated live from Google's latest version whereas the Nav is periodically downloaded to the car, so when the message "You're now using the latest maps" appears after an over-the-air update it really means the latest version of Nav has been downloaded but this will still typically be behind the live map in the case of the most recent road building & alterations.

Now that penny has dropped I understand why I have occasionally found myself skimming through fields and back gardens when I glance at the Nav display in the upper console while the main map shows the red arrow firmly planted on a nice new stretch of road. I can also understand how Nav shows road details and continues to plot a course in an area where the mobile signal is too weak for the map to be drawn.

I do wonder if this causes problems for Nav when it re-routes to avoid traffic, for example in the attached file if there was a hold up on the green stretch of road (a newish section of the Heads of the Valleys road), Nav wouldn't react as it is plotting a path (in grey) on the old road, and vice-versa if there was a hold-up on the old road.

Also one other Nav-related question, can anyone tell me how to do the trick where you get an estimate of charge needed for a return trip? I've got this to work in the past by doing something like tapping on the estimated charge remaining for the outbound trip (I think this is what the user guide says) but when I've tried this recently it just brings up a marker for the destination on the map.
 

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The traffic info used for route selection is also separate from the big map display- the display is Google map with Google traffic, the nav system is navteq(?) offline maps with traffic info from Inrix.

Re round-trip estimate: tap the bottom of the route box within the map display - the bit that normally displays time/distance to go and ETA.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks @arg, I now feel fully informed and have rediscovered the round trip function ready for the next time I need it :)
 

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the nav system is navteq(?) offline maps with traffic info from Inrix.
Isn't it Garmin? (which maybe using navteq maps?)

I really wish they would display the nav map when the Google map tiles fail to load so the console map was still usable...
 

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Just completed Edinburgh to Newbury (for Downton Abbey Battle Proms event - great fun) in my lovely 85D. The mapping system rerouted us off the M6 due to traffic and took us along a parallel road and indeed we could see the queue we were missing about a mile away. However later on it threw a complete wobbly and sent us off on some 4 digit side road instead of using the motorway. There was no obvious reason for it and we ignored it and carried on the M6. However in Newbury I wanted to recharge and found the Reading SC about 16 miles away. The system took me all round a series of back roads and single tracks for about 20 miles until I was getting low on juice and unable to trust my sat nav to get me anywhere. I stopped at a hotel and got instructions on how to find the M4 on a piece of paper and eventually had to return to the starting point and recharge at the Chievely Chademo about 3 miles from Newbury! An irritating £12 later, I switched off the rerouting option and since then I seem to have had no quirks in the directions, although it would be a great help if the maps had a scale on the side to give some feel for distances. After cruising the Cotswolds for a couple of days I decided just to ask the hotel if I could plug in overnight and indeed that did the job for my return trip. One 20 mins stop at Warrington (Q hotel with 2 SC points and one general point) and one 15 min at Gretna and back home with 100 in the tank. Close to 1000 miles for £12! However I told my insurance I expected to do about 10,000 miles a year (8,000 in the last year of my BMW335) but here I am at 3 months having done 5,000. Is there counselling available for addicts? Maybe EV Anonymous.

I am concerned that I seem to have to choose between avoiding congestion and being sent on wild goose chases rather than direct routes. Anyone else not trusting their sat nav?
 

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schlussel
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Anyone else not trusting their sat nav?
The entire Tesla community! There may be someone out there that thinks it's great, if so, they are keeping their head down. Multiple, multiple, multiple posts about SatNav taking three sides of a square, or just giving stupid directions. We all wait with baited breath for Tesla to throw it in the bin, and replace it with something better, such as a 1942 AA Road Atlas, with half the pages missing.
Utter rubbish.
Did I mention I think it could be better?
 

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There may be someone out there that thinks it's great,
I think it's not so bad. There are various issues:

- The route via superchargers function. Just turn it off; the concept is fundamentally flawed even if they now claim to have fixed some of the bugs.

- Lack of features like waypoints etc. etc. Would be nice to have, not a big deal for me, you may differ.

- Map accuracy. Seems at least as good as other satnavs in my experience, but obviously irritating if you have a map error along your regular routes.

- Traffic-based rerouting. A mixed bag. It sometimes comes up with excellent routes, saving lots of time; sometimes it doesn't. In general it seems slightly too keen to take you off the 'obvious' route in pursuit of a time saving that might not be there. At the macro level, it seems to suffer from having no future prediction - it seems to base routes on "traffic now", but by the time you get there the traffic may have changed. At the micro level, it quite often comes up with silly but relatively harmless "short cuts" where the saving from turning onto a traffic-free backstreet is outweighed by the delay getting out at the junction at the end and the sheer hassle of making lots of turns to save what would have been a few seconds gain in the most optimistic case. However, compared to other satnav systems the Tesla setup does have the huge advantage that you have the dual displays - the main display lets you see the route it has in mind and Google's view of the traffic, without upsetting your actual driving directions on the dash display.

So whenever I see it telling me to turn off the motorway, I have a quick glance at the main display and see if I think it's sensible - if I'm not convinced, I just refuse to take the turn and it recalculates.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@Prawno yes did my first series of long distance trips a few weeks ago and discovered the Russian roulette game that is trusting the sat nav's rerouting suggestions. Same as you, I found one detour saved a bit of time by avoiding motorway congestion but it was probably outweighed by a couple of other jaunts through urban areas (the worst one was when it claimed to have saved 10 minutes by rerouting around the roadworks approaching the Forth road bridge and ended up taking about 40 minutes longer :rolleyes:).

She's a capricious thing, and there is some fun in working out whether or not to pay any attention to her. On more than one occasion I noticed a suggestion to leave a motorway on an exit slip road and then immediately rejoin using the entry slip on the same junction at which point I knew it was taking the mickey (even if you could save a minute by doing this, I like to think it's not the sort of escapade any self-respecting Tesla driver would ever consider).
 

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So whenever I see it telling me to turn off the motorway, I have a quick glance at the main display and see if I think it's sensible - if I'm not convinced, I just refuse to take the turn and it recalculates.
That is also the way I use it. Look at what the Google map says the traffic is and then make my own choice.
And on the whole I think it is fine. Not the best, but far from the worst.
 

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schlussel
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So whenever I see it telling me to turn off the motorway, I have a quick glance at the main display and see if I think it's sensible - if I'm not convinced, I just refuse to take the turn and it recalculates.
I think this is kind of my point. We all seem to be double checking as standard, I presume because we have all been bitten once before. Plus all the other things that are not great, that you mentioned at the beginning.

Really, as other companies seem able to have a Nav system that is so clearly better, why can't Tesla? I do think, as a Nav system, it is truly awful. Yes, I agree the maps are pretty good, but a Nav system needs to be a bit more than that, and I just don't think this one is. Pity.
 

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I think this is kind of my point. We all seem to be double checking as standard, I presume because we have all been bitten once before. Plus all the other things that are not great, that you mentioned at the beginning.

Really, as other companies seem able to have a Nav system that is so clearly better, why can't Tesla? I
You take my comment as a negative. I love the fact that I can second-guess what the nav is up to, something I couldn't realistically do on any other nav I've used - it was a case of just blindly following directions or not using it at all. I find I use the Tesla nav much more - I'll use it on routes that I know well, to supplement my own judgement and knowledge of all the back routes.
 

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I agree, I've used many different integrated Navs, from VW-Audi to Merc to BMW, and I actually rate Tesla's system better than those because I can instantly cross-check against google traffic information and make my own decision.
With all other systems I've used I would often mess about with my phone trying to double check whether I thought the diversions proposed made sense.

What I do miss is the ability to be presented with a choice of routes to select from when entering a destination (shortest / fastest / economical etc).
 

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I have to say I have never spent time second guessing the sat nav on roads I know well. I just need it to take me accurately to places I don't know.
My BMW system could reroute helpfully, could avoid tolls, could use motorways or not and I never had to ask a passenger to check the route on their phone just make sure my car was not having a laugh. The Tesla system seems a step back 10 years and clearly others are finding the same thing. Surely a technology company could make it the best, like the rest of the fab car.
 

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A snippet of information for yo'all re the main Nav screen.
At the point this photo was taken, the ferry was actually in the middle of the Thames
it was pointing up stream (down in the picture)
upload_2016-9-12_20-57-52.png

So it would seem the position is not updated all the time the screen is on.
I moved the car out of Park into Drive with the "Hill assist" brake on so the car did not move & it made no difference - it did not jump to the other side of the river till I drove off.
 

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So it would seem the position is not updated all the time the screen is on.
Interesting! I've often suspected but not been able to prove that the system uses dead reckoning (ie. speed/direction data from the wheels) to supplement GPS - perhaps in this case it's assuming that since the wheels aren't turning any drift is down to GPS error and best ignored?
 

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Time for someone to cross the Channel with the car parked on the outside deck. Do I feel a booze cruise coming on? No, not personally, but perhaps someone might.
 

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Interesting! I've often suspected but not been able to prove that the system uses dead reckoning (ie. speed/direction data from the wheels) to supplement GPS
FYI That was actually proven in a Bjorn video where he showed that the red pointer car position in a tunnel proved that the map was incorrect (as the bend in the tunnel shown by the map was in the wrong place)
 
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