Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having just added the EAP package to my M3 AWD LR, I'm still getting used to the new features. One thing I have noticed is that when Navigate on Autopilot is active, the car leaves it very late to indicate when exiting the motorway.

If I was driving manually, I would normally be in the left lane and indicate at the first or second exit marker (marked III or II) - so about 300 or 200 yards before the exit.

When the car is on NOA, it does not indicate until it is just about to make the manoeuvre, well after the last exit marker - so less than 100 yards from the exit.

Is this intentional?

I'm pretty sure that the UK Highway Code says that you should indicate at the 300 yard marker before the exit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts
Yeah, there's not much point in indicating if it's only a second or two before the manoeuvre.... Reminds me of BMW drivers, that is when they have chosen the optional blinker package.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's normal. It matches US driving I think.

It also doesn't change speed until after the limit change, which can cost you points on your license if you're not paying attention.
I've noticed that it doesn't slow down before the speed limit change, too. That's definitely not allowed and would be a fail in the driving test or advanced driving test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,631 Posts
It’s a fallacy to equate the Highway Code with safe driving...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It’s a fallacy to equate the Highway Code with safe driving...
My point was that if Tesla are selling cars (and software features) globally, they surely need to ensure that the car complies with each relevant country's traffic laws and any applicable codes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The change in speed after speed limit signs when it is based on nav data and NOT sign recognition is a joke to be honest. How can you build a system that is designed for "autonomy" that breaks the law from the get go?
My car thinks one particular road is a 30 mph when it's actually a 60 mph. That means you can't use Autopilot or Navigate on Autopilot as the car will automatically slow down to 30 mph and cause a tailback!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
OTOH in the stretch of motorway near here where it goes 70->50 for a couple of miles, AP happily carries on at 70 despite knowing the correct speed limit..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
My car thinks one particular road is a 30 mph when it's actually a 60 mph. That means you can't use Autopilot or Navigate on Autopilot as the car will automatically slow down to 30 mph and cause a tailback!
The data not being correct is something completely different. There will always be errant data that requires human intervention. But to fundamentally design the system to fail on speed limits is flawed IMO. It isn't that it "thinks" one speed limit is something else, it's that it happily sails through a reduced limit and only slows down AFTER the cut off point. You'll get a speeding ticket and have zero comeback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,631 Posts
My point was that if Tesla are selling cars (and software features) globally, they surely need to ensure that the car complies with each relevant country's traffic laws and any applicable codes?
Not necessarily. It has to operate safely within the UNECE or NHTSA regs for autonomous vehicles at the relevant SAE level. Once they’ve achieved that, then maybe in a few decades they can teach it to read a book that has little relevance to the real world! 😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
I'm pretty sure that the UK Highway Code says that you should indicate at the 300 yard marker before the exit.
Technically, those markers are at 100 metre intervals (not yards, even if signs may say yards), but yes. It's good practice (and I was taught the three stripe marker is normally appropriate), but not explicitly mentioned in the UK Highway code (rule 272) when to start indicating, it just says 'in good time'.
Tesla's autopilot code somehow needs to take into account all the rules of the road in all the countries it might be activated. Ireland's Rules of the Road booklet, for instance, doesn't even mention the need to indicate when leaving the motorway, though it does say that "Due to the higher speeds on a motorway, motorists must always signal their intentions in good time. ". Again, no explicit distance.
Probably because the road conditions may be different, and speeds may be different. 'in good time' is mentioned in both the UK and Ireland legislation.. So a number of seconds before the manoever would be better coding than a number of metres before the manoeuver.
The Netherlands "Road Traffic Signs and Regulations in the Netherlands" booklet merely mentions that drivers must signal before such a manoeuver, nothing about the timing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Technically, those markers are at 100 metre intervals (not yards, even if signs may say yards), but yes. It's good practice (and I was taught the three stripe marker is normally appropriate), but not explicitly mentioned in the UK Highway code (rule 272) when to start indicating, it just says 'in good time'.
Tesla's autopilot code somehow needs to take into account all the rules of the road in all the countries it might be activated. Ireland's Rules of the Road booklet, for instance, doesn't even mention the need to indicate when leaving the motorway, though it does say that "Due to the higher speeds on a motorway, motorists must always signal their intentions in good time. ". Again, no explicit distance.
Probably because the road conditions may be different, and speeds may be different. 'in good time' is mentioned in both the UK and Ireland legislation.. So a number of seconds before the manoever would be better coding than a number of metres before the manoeuver.
The Netherlands "Road Traffic Signs and Regulations in the Netherlands" booklet merely mentions that drivers must signal before such a manoeuver, nothing about the timing.
I read somewhere that there might be a European regulation which states that any manoeuvre must be completed within 5 seconds of any prior indication. If that is the case then maybe as you say the NOA system has a time limit coded into it rather than a distance as the car might take longer than 5 seconds to travel 300m in which case if it indicated at 300m, the turn would take place later than the prescribed period of 5 seconds. This might also account for the situation where auto lane change sometimes aborts the procedure if it indicates but a car then blocks the lane or undertakes your car - as once again it can't complete the move within 5 seconds of the indication.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
It's 7 seconds in the latest drafts. That's for lane change though, which also specifies that it must be driver initiated (although that may change if recent amendments go through).

NoA indicating to turn off off is using a loophole that turning isn't regulated - because nobody considered a driving system would do it when the legislation was initially written. Thus not bound by the 5/7 second rule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's 7 seconds in the latest drafts. That's for lane change though, which also specifies that it must be driver initiated (although that may change if recent amendments go through).

NoA indicating to turn off off is using a loophole that turning isn't regulated - because nobody considered a driving system would do it when the legislation was initially written. Thus not bound by the 5/7 second rule.
Interesting. Driver initiated might also be a loophole as NOA often makes a "suggestion" rather than automatically doing the lane change or exit, requiring the driver to confirm with a turn signal or slight wheel turn to accept the suggestion - in which case the change is driver initiated (albeit at the suggestion of the car!).

In any event, I find myself watching the car like a hawk when it's driving - almost like supervising a learner driver!

One day it will be better I'm sure.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top