True in the south but further north others start to shine line ChargeYourCar... particularly in Scotland which is almost exclusively CYC for rapids.
New Charging network launching with Q Park UK
I am pleased to announce that we have recently come to an agreement with Q Park to supply, install and operate fast (22KW) charging points across their 60 car parks. The new network will launch in February 2016, starting in Liverpool ONE and Manchester First st car parks. The network will be payable and users can access the network through our customer web portal, telephone and RFID cards (subscription only). The network will be the first in the UK to offer a one off payment at point service and this will be available through our web portal.
I look forward to receiving drivers comments and advice on the network. We anticipate initially installing 2 charging points per location.
Many thanks.
I look forward to receiving drivers comments and advice on the network. We anticipate initially installing 2 charging points per location.
Many thanks.
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I am not sure about Rapids in car parks, they are best suited for service stations or fast food /coffee stops on main routes. Otherwise you get the conflicts that get mentioned here on a regular basis with Ikea.
For car parks 7kw or 13A is best plus despite the perceived freedom of PHEV with their small range frequently low cost charging is more relevant than for longer range EV's. These PHEV don't facilitate rapid charging and at least in the short term I think this is where we will see the biggest uptake of EV's.
For car parks 7kw or 13A is best plus despite the perceived freedom of PHEV with their small range frequently low cost charging is more relevant than for longer range EV's. These PHEV don't facilitate rapid charging and at least in the short term I think this is where we will see the biggest uptake of EV's.
You know what my biggest worry about 22kW chargers is?
Very few cars can use them, but it is the perfect way to justify a huge price. £3.30 per hour to charge? Yes, but you could get a full 22kWh in that time so it is only 15p per kWh... but then most will probably only charge at 3.3kW so will be paying £1 per kWh... or if I stay for 72 minutes... I pay £6 and get less than 4kWh, so am paying about £1.50 per kWh.
Very few cars can use them, but it is the perfect way to justify a huge price. £3.30 per hour to charge? Yes, but you could get a full 22kWh in that time so it is only 15p per kWh... but then most will probably only charge at 3.3kW so will be paying £1 per kWh... or if I stay for 72 minutes... I pay £6 and get less than 4kWh, so am paying about £1.50 per kWh.
I think that there is little intersection between the target market of these chargers and this forum. I can see it working for price insensitive business travellers driving next generation (or current Tesla) luxury electric cars. These could easily benefit from a 50kWh top-up during a typical business meeting and it's all an allowable business expense.
I agree with the other posters that this would ideally all be on one bill for the parking, though.
I agree with the other posters that this would ideally all be on one bill for the parking, though.
@Robert Byrne, good luck with the plans. Please consider the needs of overseas visitors, without a UK address. I'm sure it is a small group, but one that needs to rely on car parks, so it would make sense to offer a charging option to it.
This is surely destination charging so should be 7kw. or even 13a. It is the wrong place for rapids. It Is a great idea and to be commended for adding more charging options just the wrong charger type. Only 2 posts is too few really.
For long stay car parks - for commuters, who will leave their car for 8 hours+, then lots of standard 13a sockets is all that's needed
For short stay "shopper" car parks, where you leave your car for 3-4 hours, then 32a chargers are ideal (some cars will only charge at 16a anyway)
Rapids are not ideally suited for car parks - much better to be at transport hubs like services, where you only stop for 30 mins anyway.
I was in the Plymouth city car park at the weekend, which has both fast and rapid charging. The 7kw PodPoint (free) was being used by two vehicles (both PHEV's) - I didn't see anyone using the rapid (fee payable)
For short stay "shopper" car parks, where you leave your car for 3-4 hours, then 32a chargers are ideal (some cars will only charge at 16a anyway)
Rapids are not ideally suited for car parks - much better to be at transport hubs like services, where you only stop for 30 mins anyway.
I was in the Plymouth city car park at the weekend, which has both fast and rapid charging. The 7kw PodPoint (free) was being used by two vehicles (both PHEV's) - I didn't see anyone using the rapid (fee payable)
22kW isn't rapid charging, it just means you brought the 3 phase through to the post. It doesn't add much to the install costs but is very handy for cars that can use it like the Zoe and to some extent Tesla and some Merc owners.
Also helps future proof the install as battery capacities increase.
Also helps future proof the install as battery capacities increase.
Thanks for the additional comments, we are taking everything you are saying on board.
We are planning to offer transparent pricing and charge by kWh across the network. We are also considering 30KW DC charging in certain Q Parks. This will be slightly more expensive than AC charging but will allow users to top up their batteries in a quicker timeframe as they park for 1-2 hours, as oppose to parking there for 4-8 hours. Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this pricing strategy.
We are planning to offer transparent pricing and charge by kWh across the network. We are also considering 30KW DC charging in certain Q Parks. This will be slightly more expensive than AC charging but will allow users to top up their batteries in a quicker timeframe as they park for 1-2 hours, as oppose to parking there for 4-8 hours. Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this pricing strategy.
Will the charging fees be able to offset parking costs? Most cars will only be able to charge at 3.3khw or 7kwh so it is unlikely AC usage will be particularly high. DC usage will have to compete with Ecotricity and other rapid charging providers.Thanks for the additional comments, we are taking everything you are saying on board.
We are planning to offer transparent pricing and charge by kWh across the network. We are also considering 30KW DC charging in certain Q Parks. This will be slightly more expensive than AC charging but will allow users to top up their batteries in a quicker timeframe as they park for 1-2 hours, as oppose to parking there for 4-8 hours. Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this pricing strategy.
Also, is the £1.50 including the first 6kwh of AC charging or is the 25p per kwh on top of the £1.50 charge?
Also, how will charge points be kept from being blocked by Ice cars?
Gut feel on the pricing -- about right generally speaking (with the proviso about parking charges above). I presume that is inclusive of vat @ 20% (commercially). I'm ok with a "Minimum charge" at around that level too. better than a fixed usage charge.
I was thinking about this thread in the day. It occurred to me that it might be helpful to consider what the future might look like:
So imagine in 5 year's time when approx 25% of new cars are electric. Imagine a bit further when 25 of all existing cars are electric. What will a car park look like then? It occurs to me that there will come a time when the distinction between parking and charging will become irrelevant. Electric car drivers will expect to go to any car park and for all the spaces (or at least all the spaces in 25% of the car park) to have a charge point. It will just be part of what would be expected from parking space. The suggestion that there are chargers operated by a separate company to the one that operates the car park will just seem bizarre.
In creating a new charging network from scratch there is a chance to do things differently. Just adding some more chargers that will be ICE'd, unreliable and require me to buy a membership for more RFID cards will just cause me to filter out those chargers on the map. I want to park in a car park that has been designed with the assumption that EVs are (will become) the norm, rather than an awkward special interest group.
My ideal payment system would be to take a ticket on entering the car park; to use that ticket to activate the charger; to them go to a paystation when I return to the car park, and pay for the time in the car park and the kWh in the charger in one single payment; finally to use the ticket to exit the car park.
So imagine in 5 year's time when approx 25% of new cars are electric. Imagine a bit further when 25 of all existing cars are electric. What will a car park look like then? It occurs to me that there will come a time when the distinction between parking and charging will become irrelevant. Electric car drivers will expect to go to any car park and for all the spaces (or at least all the spaces in 25% of the car park) to have a charge point. It will just be part of what would be expected from parking space. The suggestion that there are chargers operated by a separate company to the one that operates the car park will just seem bizarre.
In creating a new charging network from scratch there is a chance to do things differently. Just adding some more chargers that will be ICE'd, unreliable and require me to buy a membership for more RFID cards will just cause me to filter out those chargers on the map. I want to park in a car park that has been designed with the assumption that EVs are (will become) the norm, rather than an awkward special interest group.
- I want to be able to pay as I go.
- I want to pay for the kWh that I use
- I want paying for the charge to be no harder than paying for the parking.
- I want the charging bay to be in a non-premium location so It does not so easily get ICEd
- I want realtime updates to the online maps etc so I can be certain whether a charger bay is working / in use before I decide to drive to it.
- I want the chargers to be idiot proof, and to look like and operate much like petrol pumps to they are understood by ICE drivers.
My ideal payment system would be to take a ticket on entering the car park; to use that ticket to activate the charger; to them go to a paystation when I return to the car park, and pay for the time in the car park and the kWh in the charger in one single payment; finally to use the ticket to exit the car park.
Not bad at all IMO but if it cost any more then it will start to be more expensive than using an ICE so it depends on your target customer base... emergency user only or regular user.Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this pricing strategy.
Like others that have mentioned it I am not keen on rapid chargers in car parks. Rapid chargers are best at rapid charging
but in a car park it invites people to park up, plug in and disappear for hours. Fine on a 7kW charger but on a rapid charger it blocks others from using it as it is likely that the car will be full within the hour.
Working it out for my GTE........
A full charge is 7.2Kw (I measured it tonight).......
So if it's empty then a charge at the suggested rate would be £1.80
Why not just include this in the charge for the car park - I'd probably happily pay £2 extra to park in a car park with "free" chargepoints, than to park in an alternative car park with none.
If you take the car park as a whole, with hundreds of spaces, increase the charge by 10p for everyone, and you will have paid for the install and the electricity in no time - and you just need simple basic charge points.
The car park op needs to think of it as an incentive to get EV'ers using their car park. Before I would often try and use free on street parking with my ice, I'm now happy to pay to use a car park which has "free" charge points
A full charge is 7.2Kw (I measured it tonight).......
So if it's empty then a charge at the suggested rate would be £1.80
Why not just include this in the charge for the car park - I'd probably happily pay £2 extra to park in a car park with "free" chargepoints, than to park in an alternative car park with none.
If you take the car park as a whole, with hundreds of spaces, increase the charge by 10p for everyone, and you will have paid for the install and the electricity in no time - and you just need simple basic charge points.
The car park op needs to think of it as an incentive to get EV'ers using their car park. Before I would often try and use free on street parking with my ice, I'm now happy to pay to use a car park which has "free" charge points
In car parks just want type 2 AC in one row clearly marked and included in price of parking, no faffing around with seperate payment even if means getting a access card from attendant or pay point. I will only pay for Rapid myself when on a 30-60 min stop if there is going to be a minimum charge.
How would this affect Q-Park in London, if I'm not mistaken that's under Source London right so will you eventually roll out this to London car parks?
And if so will that mean another card/subscription?
And if so will that mean another card/subscription?
Price is right, locations is a bit meh for me (but can't please everyone), only 8 locations in Scotland but with a PAYG option still worth me hunting out these sites.
Oh and 22kw AC, I like it!
Oh and 22kw AC, I like it!
I agree with @Sandy the price is ok. Works out almost comparable to using an ice but crucially no more expensive! I topped up my leaf from 2 bars to 11 bars today at a free cyc post in Manchester. The post told me I'd used 13.6kwh so even on the higher DC charge rate this would be £4.08 which I would see as being ok. Any more would make it restrictive though. Not sure why but I see the £4 limit as being a bit of a barrier in the leaf (24kw battery) so if charging could be under this it would be ideal.
Thanks for the question. The London network is still in the process of being renegotiated with Bluepoint. This deal is by no means done, however at the moment our network will be for the 60 Q parks across the rest of the UK (outside London).How would this affect Q-Park in London, if I'm not mistaken that's under Source London right so will you eventually roll out this to London car parks?
And if so will that mean another card/subscription?
There maybe an opportunity for us to have presence in the 12 Q Parks within Greater London in the near future depending on our performance.
Wise business strategy to build a relationship with ev drivers. So many of us are values driven in our purchase. Understanding and responding to those values makes sense.Thanks for the additional comments, we are taking everything you are saying on board.
We are planning to offer transparent pricing and charge by kWh across the network. We are also considering 30KW DC charging in certain Q Parks. This will be slightly more expensive than AC charging but will allow users to top up their batteries in a quicker timeframe as they park for 1-2 hours, as oppose to parking there for 4-8 hours. Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this pricing strategy.
Type 2 7kw posts for most non tesla ev's fully charge from full to empty in 3 to 4 hours, not 4 to 8. And remember most ev drivers won't arrive empty so will have some or significant charge left. So less than 3 hours for most ev's on a 7kw post will fully charge your car.
21 - 40 of 220 Posts
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