New Charging network launching with Q Park UK

29574 Views 219 Replies 53 Participants Last post by Simon Wardle, Aug 24, 2016

Robert Byrne

Discussion Starter · Dec 7, 2015

I am pleased to announce that we have recently come to an agreement with Q Park to supply, install and operate fast (22KW) charging points across their 60 car parks. The new network will launch in February 2016, starting in Liverpool ONE and Manchester First st car parks. The network will be payable and users can access the network through our customer web portal, telephone and RFID cards (subscription only). The network will be the first in the UK to offer a one off payment at point service and this will be available through our web portal.

I look forward to receiving drivers comments and advice on the network. We anticipate initially installing 2 charging points per location.

Many thanks.

Reactions: 3

41 - 60 of 220 Posts

Edd Beesley

· #41 · Dec 9, 2015

The Highcross shopping centre in Leicester has 100+ EV bays, each fitted with a 3 pin socket. They don't attract an additional fee and are not individually monitored (imagine the PITA that would be!). What they do is monitor the usage of the whole lot, and as it goes up feed that into their cost model when they review parking prices. So everyone now pays (for instance) 5p more per hour. As usage increases the parking fee will increase, and the "free" charging becomes more attractive to those who were going to park there anyway.

As for having 22kw in a car park, that is a bit silly. A 3 pin socket is honestly genuinely fine, and each 22kw post has the same power requirement as seven 3 pin sockets (and in reality you'd connect probably 10-12 3 pin sockets from the same supply as they are unlikely to all be connected and drawing max current at the same time)

Reactions: 2

Steve Thayne

· #42 · Dec 9, 2015

Edd Beesley said:
The Highcross shopping centre in Leicester has 100+ EV bays, each fitted with a 3 pin socket. They don't attract an additional fee and are not individually monitored (imagine the PITA that would be!). What they do is monitor the usage of the whole lot, and as it goes up feed that into their cost model when they review parking prices. So everyone now pays (for instance) 5p more per hour. As usage increases the parking fee will increase, and the "free" charging becomes more attractive to those who were going to park there anyway.

As for having 22kw in a car park, that is a bit silly. A 3 pin socket is honestly genuinely fine, and each 22kw post has the same power requirement as seven 3 pin sockets (and in reality you'd connect probably 10-12 3 pin sockets from the same supply as they are unlikely to all be connected and drawing max current at the same time)

Except a chunk of us Leaf owners who opted for the 7kw on board charger and so did not get an evse 3 pin at the time (though you get both cables now) would not be able to charge there....without spending £500 on an evse! Perhaps that may be a legacy issue. But I would rather see us stick to type 2 sockets. ;The EU standard. And not need to carry both charging cables in the car for those that have them.

Reactions: 3

Edd Beesley

· #43 · Dec 9, 2015

Steve Thayne said:
Except a chunk of us Leaf owners who opted for the 7kw on board charger and so did not get an evse 3 pin would not be able to charge there....without spending £500 on an evse! Perhaps that may be a legacy issue. But I would rather see us stick to type 2 sockets. ;The EU standard. And not need to carry both charging cables in the car for those that have them.

You can buy one for about £200. My car only came with the 3 pin evse, so I had to pay ~£200 for a type 2 cable, it's horses for courses.

Reactions: 1

Steve Thayne

· #44 · Dec 9, 2015

Edd Beesley said:
You can buy one for about £200. My car only came with the 3 pin evse, so I had to pay ~£200 for a type 2 cable, it's horses for courses.

Be grateful for a link if you can find one for £200...?

Notwithstanding my keeness to have a brick. Type 2 socketted preferably 7kwh would be my call. EU standard. Again, no need to carry two cables....most existing public charging is type 2. And best balance between speed of charging and cost of installation.

MikeProcter

· #45 · Dec 9, 2015

I have never used my evse in a car park. I don't even carry it will me unless visiting family.

I only carry the type 2 lead. Can't think why I would ever use the 3pin out on the road. I see it as destination charging. I have never parked any of my cars (EV or ice) in a city centre car park for more than 4 hours, which is more than enough to charge a 6.6kw Leaf.

Reactions: 2

MikeProcter

· #46 · Dec 9, 2015

Steve Thayne said:
Be grateful for a link if you can find one for £200...?

Notwithstanding my keeness to have a brick. Type 2 socketted preferably 7kwh would be my call. EU standard. Again, no need to carry two cables....most existing public charging is type 2. And best balance between speed of charging and cost of installation.

I think @Edd Beesley was referring to a type 2 cable.

Philip Bowden

· #47 · Dec 9, 2015 (Edited)

Davidx said:
I agree with @Sandy the price is ok. Works out almost comparable to using an ice but crucially no more expensive! I topped up my leaf from 2 bars to 11 bars today at a free cyc post in Manchester. The post told me I'd used 13.6kwh so even on the higher DC charge rate this would be £4.08 which I would see as being ok. Any more would make it restrictive though. Not sure why but I see the £4 limit as being a bit of a barrier in the leaf (24kw battery) so if charging could be under this it would be ideal.

Obviously if fuel for an EV is more than an ICE then the incentive to go EV is lost. However, for me, I have factored in some of the cost of the car to be offset against cheaper fuel. My car is expensive, however the cost per mile when I spread it across a good amount of time comes down because the fuel is generally less that for an ICE. If public charger networks plan their offering to make the fuel cost equivalent to an ICE then this cost per mile calculation will not lead people to becoming EV drivers, and hence their customers. Pricing needs to be at a level so there is a sustainable benefit to both drivers and public charge networks.

Reactions: 1

Rafal

· #48 · Dec 10, 2015

I agree that having a 3-pin UK socket is good enough, but it is not what I would like to see. I would much prefer to have Type 2 sockets, because it is neater, simpler, no expensive granny cables to be stolen, and, in my opinion, is better designed for a public location than a 3-pin socket is. But if I don't have the choice, a domestic socket would be ok.

I also feel that the cost of providing a payment system may be borderline excessive to the value of what it provides, certainly in terms of the hassle factor. Figure out how to charge for electricity together with the parking fee (if at all) and perhaps focus on metering the usage, as a way of justifying your value-add to the car park owners, in my humble and rather user-focused opinion.

Reactions: 1

Paul_Moxhay

· #49 · Dec 10, 2015

For me a 3-pin socket is totally useless for anything other than overnight or emergency charging. Even overnight it can be too slow. Sometimes I go to bed late and get up early and the car is just not charged.

Public charging should IMO be 7kW minimum from now on. 3-pin is not fit for purpose and it has none of the built-in safety that dedicated charging has. Type 2 socket chargers are not expensive and are better in every way to 3-pin except convenience.

3-pin is fine for home or emergency charging but totally inadequate for public charging especially as batteries are getting bigger and so 3-pin will be less and less appropriate or useful.

Reactions: 5

MikeProcter

· #50 · Dec 10, 2015

Paul_Churchley said:
For me a 3-pin socket is totally useless for anything other than overnight or emergency charging. Even overnight it can be too slow. Sometimes I go to bed late and get up early and the car is just not charged.

Public charging should IMO be 7kW minimum from now on. 3-pin is not fit for purpose and it has none of the built-in safety that dedicated charging has. Type 2 socket chargers are not expensive and are better in every way to 3-pin except convenience.

3-pin is fine for home or emergency charging but totally inadequate for public charging especially as batteries are getting bigger and so 3-pin will be less and less appropriate or useful.

I couldn't agree more.

Reactions: 1

osbrook

· #51 · Dec 10, 2015

However 3 pin is all I can use. As I take my Twizy around the country access to 3 pin charging in town is key to me visiting. Okay I may be in a minority with a few other legacy EV's but it is still a current offering.

A 3 hour shop is enough for a full charge and to give my next 36-50 miles. My alternative is to take my 7M motor home into town - try parking that in town car parks. Hence the Twizy.

At least a Type 2 to 3 pin adaptor is cheaper for me but frowned upon.

Reactions: 1

Paul_Moxhay

· #52 · Dec 10, 2015

I take your point about the Twizy but it is very much an exception even now and I suspect there won't be many more vehicles with just 13A charging in future. In any case... almost by definition, 13A is unmetered so how do you pay for the electricity? Of course, it could be metered but it generally isn't. 13A top ups are generally freebies and so they fall into the "perk" category of charging and that could more easily be catered for outside the normal public charging remit by the business offering the perk.

Also... how often do you go outside the range of a single charge in the Twizy? Probably not very often I would guess.

planetf1

· #53 · Dec 10, 2015

i'd concur with type-2. It is "the" standard for "proper" charging facilities. 13A is a pain

andrew*debbie

· #54 · Dec 10, 2015 (Edited)

Robert Byrne said:
Anticipated charging tariffs are 25p kWh for AC and 30p kWh for DC with a £1.50 minimum charge.

That sounds about right. At that price we would use it at Liverpool One. (if there is a post available . . .)

On a typical visit we would use about 15kWh / £3.75 and save about an hour on the drive home. Worth it - especially once the EH introduces fees.

Reactions: 1

smartie

· #55 · Dec 10, 2015

Just to clarify - is the £1.50 on top of the 25p per kwh fee or inclusive of the first 6kwh?

Davidx

· #56 · Dec 10, 2015 (Edited)

I would expect it's inclusive as he worded it as a minimum charge. In the same way a lot of petrol pumps have a minimum vend of £5. Just means that if you stop charging before what you've charged is equal to or more than £1.50, you still pay £1.50, but say if you've charged enough that it's £1.75 worth then that's what you pay, not £1.75 + £1.50. If that was the case it would be worded as an access charge similar to that recently discussed with Polar which we all agreed was ludicrous.

Reactions: 1

andrew*debbie

· #57 · Dec 10, 2015

A minimum spend makes sense. It costs real money to run a debit or credit card transaction.

Robert Byrne

Discussion Starter · #58 · Jan 9, 2016

Hello everyone,

Just to keep you all in the loop, things are progressing well and we are due to commence installations in the second week of February with charging stations anticipated to go live in March 2016.

We will be using the 22kw Ensto EVC 200 units. They are a robust unit and Q Park selected this to keep the aesthetics similar to their current branding. Access will be via our customer portal and payment can be made on the spot (PAYG) or post pay where we invoice you the total charging usage at the end of each month. Our customer portal is fully PCI compliant and payment can be made through PayPal, Google wallet, world pay etc.

We are excitied to get this project off the ground and build our own network with key private sector organisations.

Look forward to receiving any questions on the above.

Reactions: 3

smartie

· #59 · Jan 9, 2016

Have you finalised the fees? Is it £1.50 on top of the 25p per kwh fee or inclusive of the first 6kwh?

Philip Bowden

· #60 · Jan 9, 2016

When you say that payment is via your portal, is that a currently existing thing that you also use to charge for parking, or is it something else?

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