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Founder of Franklin Energy
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am pleased to announce that today we installed our first charging points in partnership with Britannia Parking. This is a 22kW dual outlet charging point and will show on our LiFe charging network that is accessible via my.franklinenergy.co.uk.

The first charging point has been installed in London Cheltenham Terrace, Chelsea, with Kings road and Sloanne Square in close proximity to the site. We will be installing more charging points across Britannia Car Park sites in 2017. If you know of any sites that are ideally suited for charging points then please let me know and we will prioritize those sites.

Site address is as follows:
Cheltenham Terrace
London
SW3 4QX

Many thanks,

Rob.
 

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Loadshedding
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298 Posts
Good news from Britannia then.
Lets kick off with Egham below a Travelodge and a Waitrose and in the town centre.
Handy for A30 and M25 in an area bereft of chargers. A Rapid and a Fast would be very useful.
 

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Founder of Franklin Energy
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for your message. This will be showing on our front end map tomorrow.

Pricing is currently set at £0.30 per kW.
 

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Founder of Franklin Energy
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good news from Britannia then.
Lets kick off with Egham below a Travelodge and a Waitrose and in the town centre.
Handy for A30 and M25 in an area bereft of chargers. A Rapid and a Fast would be very useful.
Thanks for this. We will propose the Egham site to Britannia for roll out during 2017.

Any more suitable Britannia locations would be appreciated.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Not showing on your map (yet) and can't find any pricing information on your website.
There's a map? Not when I look at the signature link, can't find an app either.
 

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Pricing is currently set at £0.30 per kW.
I always understood that it wasn't possible to charge by the kW! (kWh?)
How is it that you can do this as everyone has argued that this is the only way to go.

A bit like charging for petrol by the litre and not how long you get to fill up the way EcoT et al have gone.:D
 

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I always understood that it wasn't possible to charge by the kW! (kWh?)
How is it that you can do this as everyone has argued that this is the only way to go.

A bit like charging for petrol by the litre and not how long you get to fill up the way EcoT et al have gone.:D
kWh pricing has been deregulated for novel new products as of July this year. Complex incentived electricity products are allowed too so it's going to get somewhat difficult to compare electricity tariffs too - all that legislation has gone.
 

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It always was possible to charge per kWh in the UK, it's just that there used to be a load of regulation, the meters needed to be tested and approved, and the company doing it needed an electricity supply licence.

Nowadays, any meter used for dispensing still needs to be accurate (that's covered under trading standards, just like the meter on a petrol pump, or the scales at the greengrocer), but the operator no longer needs to be a licenced electricity supplier.
 

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Founder of Franklin Energy
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is possible to charge by kWh in the UK for EV charging. Note there is no MRP for EV charging and this has been approved by Ofgem, please see attached document.

All of our charging points are installed with an MID approved meter allowing us to charge by kWh.

We are thinking of charging in 30 minute intervals for rapids and we are interested to hear how this would be accepted by the drivers. All of the fast infrastructure will remain by kWh.
 

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Ecohound
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[QUOTE="Robert
We are thinking of charging in 30 minute intervals for rapids and we are interested to hear how this would be accepted by the drivers. All of the fast infrastructure will remain by kWh.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people would like Rapids to be priced by kWh but I am afraid that with a lot of PHEV car's being able to access them with their type 2 socket and only drawing 3.3kWh , to me it's a non starter . 30mins on a Rapid seems to be reasonable but a lot of customers just need a top up so why not let the customer choose between 15 minutes or 30 minutes time slots . ;)
 

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We are thinking of charging in 30 minute intervals for rapids and we are interested to hear how this would be accepted by the drivers. All of the fast infrastructure will remain by kWh.
Why 30 minute intervals? Fixed intervals are completely wrong.

From a customer point of view, per kWh is ideal, but it's quite reasonable for you to say that your cost of providing the service is very substantially affected by the time taken, hence you want to charge by the minute. It's also reasonable for you to say that there's a transaction cost involved in billing, so you wouldn't want people to be able to purchase just one minute.

The ultimate fair tariff (that relates directly to the cost of providing the service and so no one user is subsidising another) would have three components - a charge per kWh to pay for the electricity; a charge per minute to pay for the cost of providing the equipment, rent of the land on which it sits etc. (those costs are being incurred regardless of how much the EV takes on board during the session, simply sitting there it prevents other users using the facility); and finally a per-transaction charge to reflect the cost of billing. However, that gets a bit complicated to explain and it's reasonable to simplify. For typical charging, the time and the number of kWh go up roughly in step, so it's not unreasonable to base the whole cost on one or the other, though that will favour one set of users over another according to the speed with which their EVs can take on charge.

Hence I think it's quite reasonable to charge per kWh only for AC charging where the electricity cost is the dominant factor and by time only for Rapids where the facility cost is the dominant factor; in either case it's reasonable to set a minimum quantity to ensure the transaction cost is covered (or alternatively add a small transaction cost explicitly).

However, there's no logical reason to force this large granularity of 30 minute chunks. If I actually need 31 minutes charging to reach my destination, it's monumentally unfair that I have to pay almost double. If I only need 10 minutes, why force me to stay there to get my money's worth, blocking the charger from other drivers that may want to use it? If I'm eating while the charge goes on and don't reappear exactly at 30 minutes, do you really want to terminate the charge and have my car still sitting there blocking the charger but not earning you any revenue? Wouldn't you rather continue charging (both electrically and financially) until I get back?


In reality, I never ever want to charge for exactly 30 minutes. Sometimes it's a little more, sometimes a little less, sometimes it's only 10 minutes. So why do you want to force me to buy something I don't want when it doesn't give you any benefit?
 

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Founder of Franklin Energy
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We will take all of your advice on board. Thanks for all of your input here.
We are currently finalizing terms with several location partners so I cannot release any further information at this stage. I will update everyone in due course.
 

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I think that most drivers would be happy with a per-kWh charge, and a time exceeded penalty for overstays at rapids, like much of the Chargepoint Genie estate. Given that most of the locations you're dealing with are car parks, for which the driver is already paying on a time-basis for parking, you don't need a time-stepped tariff, because your parking provider partner is already dealing with that.

For that matter, most drivers hate stepped pay and display parking tariffs, especially if they're set to penalise based on available coinage, so it's 60p for 30 minutes parking, driver only needs 20 minutes, but they only have a 50p and a £1 handy, so they overpay, but not enough to make the £1.20 which would give them an hour, and the next step is probably 2 hours, for which the driver still doesn't have enough change, so they need 20 minutes, and end up overpaying for 1 hour.
 

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Loadshedding
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Robert it might be helpful to let us know where the Britannia car parks are so that local EV drivers and those familiar with longer routes can comment.
Zap Map clearly shows gaps in the UK coverage
Lincoln, Newark, A303 as well Wales, East and North Yorkshire off the top of my head and of course London and roads like the A3 and M3 inside the M25.
 

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It is possible to charge by kWh in the UK for EV charging. Note there is no MRP for EV charging and this has been approved by Ofgem, please see attached document.

All of our charging points are installed with an MID approved meter allowing us to charge by kWh.

We are thinking of charging in 30 minute intervals for rapids and we are interested to hear how this would be accepted by the drivers. All of the fast infrastructure will remain by kWh.
1st of all look at what you want to achieve, then consider the pricing model.

Fast/destination chargers paying by kWh makes total sense. People may be parked there all day, and charger usage is probably quite low....and if you needed to expand due to high usage it's cheap to do.

Rapid chargers are to facilitate long distance travel, and time is the valuable commodity. The last thing anyone wants on a cross country journey is to find a Golf GTE plugged in all day....and the last thing you want is £1 for a whole day blocking the charger.

Additionally if the charge point is used heavily it's going to be very expensive to expand the number of rapid chargers. So charging by the unit of time makes total sense. 10, 20 and 30minute options would be even better.

Of course some people (like 50% of the Zoe drivers) will say it's the worst possible idea etc etc, but when you look at what Rapid chargers are designed to do it makes total sense.
 

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If you go for rapid charging in 30 minute chunks I'll ignore your network in the same way I ignore Ecotricity.

I drive an e-Up, I would literally have to arrive at the charger empty in order to make full use of a 30 minute slot.

Before Ecotricity introduced their stupid 30 minute time periods my charging pattern at motorway rapids used to be 15-18 minutes at maximum.

It disgruntled me immensely that Ecotricity announced a £5 for 20 min plan and then extended it to 30min for £6... looks cheaper, but actually more expense since I'd never use that extra 10 minutes.

If you can implement rapids that ask you if you want 10 / 20 / 30 minutes and automatically disconnect at the right time then your on a winner.
 

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Founder of Franklin Energy
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hello,

Thanks for further input here.

We have decided to proceed with charging time based in 10 minute intervals at £2, meaning a 20 minute charge would cost £4.

All of our fast charging network will remain at £0.30 per kWh. We are soon on boarding new charging points in Swansea and Croydon. More details can be found here: my.franklinenergy.co.uk

Many thanks.
 
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