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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, this is my first post and I'm glad to have found this forum...

There's been a few threads on here of a similar theme. I picked up my GTE Advance a few days ago (67 plate and has done 22K miles) and am beginning to experience that "shall I keep it or shall I swap it" feeling, which tbh I don't want but I can't shake it off.

The car itself is wonderful. I love driving it and it is everything I thought it would be from that point of view. The problem is the GTE bit, i.e. the charging, the 22 mile "range" and the anxiety over that which is starting to become an obsession. Reading the forum here that seems to be not at an uncommon feeling.

I will say I expected more from the range and the 22 miles it says it has on a full charge seems to go quickly and probably after around 15 real miles. I realise there's a number of factors, including air con etc. The drive to work is around town and back, approx 8-10 miles round trip. It gets you obsessing though over the heating, air con etc. and if I am honest I never want to think about those things. I had a Mazda 3 from new for 12 years before which did 32mpg over its life and I never thought about those things.

In essence I want a Golf and I want economy - say 50-60mpg in the "real world". The last thing I want is a diesel and I don't want to go tearing down the road in a GTI.

I realise this might be missing the point of the GTE, but if I just drove it like a normal car and forgot about charging altogether (assume that's OK to do and doesn't damage the car or battery in any way) then roughly what sort of mpg would it do on petrol with a mixture or urban/extra-urban and normal driving?

Alternatively, is there a similar VW out there that would be just as good, but without the plug-in hassle? I have a month to make my mind up about the car. VW said they would swap it but apparently don't refund. As I say I love the car but I need to 100% love it because they're not cheap are they?!
 

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You'll get mid-40's fuel consumption without the benefit of the "plugged in" miles. But you are paying a huge premium for the extras and servicing over a "normal" 1.4TSi so unless you like the semi-sporty styling/handling why bother if you don't achieve the significant savings in emissions and fuel. You will not achieve 50+MPG on your commute to work of "approx 8-10 miles round trip" with a diesel. Why is the "range" an issue for that journey - do you not have the ability to charge at home?
Will VW allow you to "trade down" in price?
 

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The drive to work is around town and back, approx 8-10 miles round trip. It gets you obsessing though over the heating, air con etc. and if I am honest I never want to think about those things.

In essence I want a Golf and I want economy - say 50-60mpg in the "real world". The last thing I want is a diesel and I don't want to go tearing down the road in a GTI.
It sounds like a Golf EV would suit you. And you'd get over 300 miles for the cost of a gallon of petrol if you charged overnight on off-peak electricity.
 

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The car itself is wonderful. I love driving it and it is everything I thought it would be from that point of view. The problem is the GTE bit, i.e. the charging, the 22 mile "range" and the anxiety over that which is starting to become an obsession. Reading the forum here that seems to be not at an uncommon feeling.
Ironically I think that "range anxiety" is worse with PHEVs than it is with BEVs. It's economic range anxiety, rather than will-I-get-home range anxiety, but the short EV range makes life trickier. Certainly observed that with several colleagues at work that have or had PHEVs, and one that moved from PHEV to BEV now has far less range anxiety.

Alternatively, is there a similar VW out there that would be just as good, but without the plug-in hassle? I have a month to make my mind up about the car. VW said they would swap it but apparently don't refund. As I say I love the car but I need to 100% love it because they're not cheap are they?!
I think that a better question is whether there's a VW out there without the fill-up and petrol hassle and cost? The 36kWh e-Golf would surely be a contender, and depending on what your exact financial position/budget/etc is, VW are already deeply discounting ID3s into the £25k range. However, I'm thinking that's probably a £5k-7k uplift over what you paid for the GTE.
 

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We have had a Golf GTE for 3 and a half years and have done 90% of our journeys on pure electric.
There's absolutely no range anxiety since you know that the engine is there should you over-run the electric range. We don't get precious about eaking out the electric range, just accept that the engine will be needed from time to time in normal use and all the time on a long journey. Remember that you can use every last electric mile, no need to search for a charger with a few miles left. Apart from long trips, we were visiting the petrol station about once a quarter.

We never charge away from home. As a result we have done several long journeys starting with a flat battery. In hybrid mode the car has returned 45-48 mpg on motorways measured from full tank to full tank. No messing with the electronically derived numbers the clever systems give you. In the same way, our lifetime mpg is about 90. So half of our mileage has been done pure electric and half hybrid. But all of the short journeys are pure electric.

This was always how we planned to use the car - for minimum anxiety. Plugging in every time you get home takes seconds and becomes automatic.

Then there's the Jeckell and Hyde aspect. It's plenty brisk in pure electric for normal driving, but when you want to cheer yourself up, find a quiet road and press the GTE button. Broad grin guaranteed!

Your short commute sounds ideal to me.
 

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I do get the range obsession, but as said it's more about wanting to stay on electric than getting stranded somewhere. Just over 10 miles into London in winter would eat most of the battery so I'd have to run on petrol back home. You can keep trying to juggle when and where you use the electric on long trips but I found that it didn't really matter when or where you used it as long as you arrived empty. Most of our trips involved M25 so I'd normally keep 5+ miles to hand for crawling in traffic.

PHEVs make sense if you can plug in frequently, as long as you can do that then it sounds like a great fit for your use.

We have an egolf now which is great and as we don't go far most days it lasts ages between charges. Obviously it's a trickier prospect for long trips, and I do miss the sportier looks and deeper sports seats of the GTE.
 

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Don't forget the winter benefits of a PHEV/BEV >> defrosting the car by hand becomes a memory
You now have the luxury or either on a timer or on-demand via the app

The VAG products will also do it when not plugged in ----- my grip about my Kona is that it won't.
( OK you have to have some miles in the HV battery but my ex GTE would defrost the windscreen in minutes with 5-6miles left in the HV when parked at a cinema / airport etc )
 
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When I was shopping for a PHEV, the rule I used was take the EV range from marketing and half it - if that still sounds good for your usage, then you're good. Ultimately, it's a petrol car with a party trick - the ICE is there to be used and the EV range is only there to reduce fuel consumption and emissions. Having said that, I've done about 600 miles on 1/16th of a tank of fuel in my Passat GTE, so it's quite a good trick - stick on the marketing hat, and I'm currently at 870mpg :cool:.........:unsure:
In essence I want a Golf and I want economy - say 50-60mpg in the "real world". The last thing I want is a diesel and I don't want to go tearing down the road in a GTI.
Have you done some maths on what you're actually spending in terms of fuel cost? Example (riddled with bad assumptions and probably mistakes, so for illustration purposes only...):
  • Let's say that you do 30 miles round trip, and your GTE manages 15 miles in EV mode, and you get 40mpg for the other 15 miles.
  • I can't remember what your usable battery capacity is, but let's use 7kWh. Let's say you're on a bog standard energy tariff, so you're paying 15p/kWh, so your cost for 15 miles in EV is £1.05.
  • 15 miles at 40mpg is 0.375 gallons of fuel, so 1.7 litres. At 113.9p per litre, your cost for 15 miles of petrol is £1.93.
  • So your 30 mile journey costs £2.98. That would buy you 2.6 litres of petrol. If you used 2.6 litres of petrol over 30 miles, you'd be doing 52mpg.
  • Get yourself onto a better energy tariff, and you're paying 5p/kWh, so your EV miles now cost 35p, which changes the equivalent mpg (in terms of cost of the journey) to 68mpg.
Note that 40mpg isn't particularly good for the GTE, but I picked a pessimistic number to illustrate the point. Basically, even if you're having to run the ICE for half of your daily drive, the journey cost to you can still be quite small. Or to put it another way, don't look at it in terms of EV range, look at it in terms of journey cost.

This also illustrates why a PHEV only really makes sense if you charge it. Don't charge, and all fuel savings go out the window.
 

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When I was shopping for a PHEV, the rule I used was take the EV range from marketing and half it - if that still sounds good for your usage, then you're good. Ultimately, it's a petrol car with a party trick - the ICE is there to be used and the EV range is only there to reduce fuel consumption and emissions. Having said that, I've done about 600 miles on 1/16th of a tank of fuel in my Passat GTE, so it's quite a good trick - stick on the marketing hat, and I'm currently at 870mpg :cool:.........:unsure:

Have you done some maths on what you're actually spending in terms of fuel cost? Example (riddled with bad assumptions and probably mistakes, so for illustration purposes only...):
  • Let's say that you do 30 miles round trip, and your GTE manages 15 miles in EV mode, and you get 40mpg for the other 15 miles.
  • I can't remember what your usable battery capacity is, but let's use 7kWh. Let's say you're on a bog standard energy tariff, so you're paying 15p/kWh, so your cost for 15 miles in EV is £1.05.
  • 15 miles at 40mpg is 0.375 gallons of fuel, so 1.7 litres. At 113.9p per litre, your cost for 15 miles of petrol is £1.93.
  • So your 30 mile journey costs £2.98. That would buy you 2.6 litres of petrol. If you used 2.6 litres of petrol over 30 miles, you'd be doing 52mpg.
  • Get yourself onto a better energy tariff, and you're paying 5p/kWh, so your EV miles now cost 35p, which changes the equivalent mpg (in terms of cost of the journey) to 68mpg.
Note that 40mpg isn't particularly good for the GTE, but I picked a pessimistic number to illustrate the point. Basically, even if you're having to run the ICE for half of your daily drive, the journey cost to you can still be quite small. Or to put it another way, don't look at it in terms of EV range, look at it in terms of journey cost.

This also illustrates why a PHEV only really makes sense if you charge it. Don't charge, and all fuel savings go out the window.
I think he said his commute is about 10 miles round trip. So 100% electric in any weather.
 

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I think he said his commute is about 10 miles round trip. So 100% electric in any weather.
Indeed. The pile of maths is to show that even if it isn't 100% electric, the "real world economy" (from a journey cost per mile) of the GTE can be astounding, and much better than the 50-60mpg that they're wanting. As long as they're OK with burning some fossils. If they're not, then BEV is the only way forward.
 

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If you want a hybrid where you don't need to worry about the charging aspect, get a Toyota/Lexus hybrid.

A Prius will reliably return 45 mpg around town whereas the GTE has a relatively inefficient single motor DCT hybrid drivetrain, which means the engine speed always tracks the gearbox speed, and consequentially the engine never runs as efficiently as possible. 35-38 mpg for town work is about right. It's much better when cruising on motorways.

Of course if you want fast and hybrid you're a bit stuck - maybe something like a Lexus IS350h?
Or you could go pure electric like an e-Golf. For speeds <40 mph it's about as fast as the GTE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks everyone for taking the trouble to reply above - all really useful info and plenty to think about. I'm very keen to make it work and confident I can do so. The fact that I have just 22 miles to play with from the full charge was a bit of a shock and the VW salesman didn't have an answer to that, which was interesting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It sounds like a Golf EV would suit you. And you'd get over 300 miles for the cost of a gallon of petrol if you charged overnight on off-peak electricity.
I looked at the Golf EV carefully but the range is factor for me, perfect for round town and the short trips but we have family equidistantly spread each about 80 miles away, meaning day trips quite difficult if you call that 160 miles in a day and I'd find charging a bit of hassle to accommodate for that.
 

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I’m wondering if your 22 mile range is a bit lower than expected? My father in law has a 66 plate GTE and still sees 26ish indicated on a full charge, although in cold weather you won’t get that. Did you get a battery health report from the dealer? Others on here will be able to confirm, but it seems slightly low to me.
 
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The GOM, or fully charged predicted range, is a poor indicator of battery health.

I did 90k miles in a GTE, it was always a 15-22 mile EV for me on my commute, depending on weather/temps.

It may only be a 7 kWh ish useable battery, but there‘a a relatively big top and bottom buffer so battery longevity is good.

A PHEV is a ‘fuel multiplier’, plug it in as much as possible, and enjoy the fuel savings over a similarly powerful petrol car. As already mentioned, it’s a good car for a 10 mile round trip commute along with regular 160 mile round trips.
 

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I looked at the Golf EV carefully but the range is factor for me, perfect for round town and the short trips but we have family equidistantly spread each about 80 miles away, meaning day trips quite difficult if you call that 160 miles in a day and I'd find charging a bit of hassle to accommodate for that.
160 miles in a day is perfectly safe in an ID3 and there are great deals on them at the moment. The jury is out however on their software issues (see the other threads) but they are a terrific buy at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I’m wondering if your 22 mile range is a bit lower than expected? My father in law has a 66 plate GTE and still sees 26ish indicated on a full charge, although in cold weather you won’t get that. Did you get a battery health report from the dealer? Others on here will be able to confirm, but it seems slightly low to me.
Thanks Spike, I will look at that, but the 22 mile figure seems to be quite common for other owners looking at other threads on this forum. No doubt it's cold now though so that may have an effect. Even so, I will ask for a battery health report from the dealer - thanks for the tip.
 

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Thanks Spike, I will look at that, but the 22 mile figure seems to be quite common for other owners looking at other threads on this forum. No doubt it's cold now though so that may have an effect. Even so, I will ask for a battery health report from the dealer - thanks for the tip.
What part of the world are you in? I ask because there's a lovely, straight, flat bit of road near me where I get 4.4mi/kWh at 60mph. There's also a very fun, twisty, hilly road near me where I get 0.8mi/kWh at 60mph. So my range is significantly different, depending on which route I take.
 
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