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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We collected our ID3 Pro Tech on 4 Jan and since then these are the charges:
DateCharge kWhMileage
fully charged on collection
04/01/2021​
0​
BP
05/01/2021​
7.79​
BP
06/01/2021​
28.85​
Eon
08/01/2021​
52.50​
BP
17/01/2021​
32.07​
BP
23/01/2021​
57.73​
BP
30/01/2021​
25.44​
BP
31/01/2021​
18.65​
BP
06/02/2021​
43.39​
492​
266.42​

So I'm getting 1.84 miles per kWh, range of 107 miles on full charge, as opposed to advertised range of 260 miles on full charge, or 4.48 miles per kWh
OK so its been cold on some days, but is this to be expected?

All thoughts appreciated!
 

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2020 VW ID3 Life 58kWh
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On short journeys in cold weather yes unfortunately as the battery heater consumes 7kW until the battery is above 8 degrees C, sub 2 does seem a little low though but your figures seem to be based what charge has been but in so there are charging losses of around 10% as well. We were getting 2.2-2.5 m/kWh reported in the car on a regular short journey of around 11 miles at a average speed of ~30mph but I did the same trip the other day in +10C and I got nearly 4 m/kWh and it was slightly damp, in summer I'm expecting 4.5+ m/kWh.

Should just add longer trips in winter should get around 3 m/kWh so a total range of around 160-170 miles.
 

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VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
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We collected our ID3 Pro Tech on 4 Jan and since then these are the charges:
DateCharge kWhMileage
fully charged on collection
04/01/2021​
0​
BP
05/01/2021​
7.79​
BP
06/01/2021​
28.85​
Eon
08/01/2021​
52.50​
BP
17/01/2021​
32.07​
BP
23/01/2021​
57.73​
BP
30/01/2021​
25.44​
BP
31/01/2021​
18.65​
BP
06/02/2021​
43.39​
492​
266.42​

So I'm getting 1.84 miles per kWh, range of 107 miles on full charge, as opposed to advertised range of 260 miles on full charge, or 4.48 miles per kWh
OK so its been cold on some days, but is this to be expected?

All thoughts appreciated!
My first thought, have you been flexing your right foot a bit as well?! 🙂

But yes, lots of short trips in cold weather, at high speeds and with heating on, pretty much like you’d use any car really, will get you nearer 2 miles per kWh rather than 3.
 

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VW Passat GTE
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Depends on how, where and when you drive. Go 70mph up a 15% grade when its -10C outside and you'll get much worse than 1.84mi/kWh. Can you elaborate on your journey profile and driving style a bit?
 

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All of the above! My X3 would return 18-19 mpg going to ASDA and back, 2 miles. 50 mpg+ on a 100 mile m-way journey. Advertised MPG was 55.......
 

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WLTP isn't an "advertised range" - it's a lab test conducted at 15-23 degrees (perfect for EV battery efficiency) and has to be published by law.

I'm doing lots of short journeys, and it's a lot less than 15 degrees - no expectation here that I would get anything near 260 miles.

My previous C350 CDi averaged 36mpg over the 6 years I owned it, the mpg on some journeys would be above 50 but many other times it would be below 20.
 

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That seems extremely poor. Whatever issues have been reported with the iD3 really bad efficiency isn’t one of them. Even people who have been complaining of worse efficiency without the heat pump etc. aren't getting efficiency anywhere like that bad. More like 3miles/kW.

I‘d be tempted to get it checked out just in case.
 

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One thing to be aware of is that you are quoting the consumption "from the wall".

Especially when using Rapid chargers, as it seems you are doing routinely, there are (potentially significant) overheads - battery heating/preconditioning, cabin heating (if you are staying in the car with heating on during the charging process), etc mean that more energy is drawn from the charger than actually stored in the battery. Whilst that is countable from an overall efficiency standpoint, it shouldn't be used to try to calculate range which is what you have extrapolated it to.

For example, your fill up on 23/01/21 - 57.73 kWh, suggests that you charged from 0% to 100%, since you have 58kWh usable battery capacity in an ID3. Is that accurate? or was it more like 5% to 95%? In which case you put 52kWh into the battery and 5kWh went into "other" overheads as above. Do you recall the start and end SoC figures for that charge, as that would give an idea of the overheads involved with Rapid charging.
 

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That seems extremely poor. Whatever issues have been reported with the iD3 really bad efficiency isn’t one of them. Even people who have been complaining of worse efficiency without the heat pump etc. aren't getting efficiency anywhere like that bad. More like 3miles/kW.
Any EV in full working order is perfectly capable of returning less than 1 mi/kWh if you drive it "right". Without knowing more about how and where this person drives, it is impossible to make any assertions about what consumption they should be getting.
 

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Does the amount in the battery need to be added when you collected it....?
On the 4/1/2021 —— charge was ...
 

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Does the amount in the battery need to be added when you collected it....?
On the 4/1/2021 —— charge was ...
That will make it ~1.5m/kWh :eek:
 

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1.84 from wall = c. 2.1 from battery.

Easily manageable with lots of very cold starts and short journeys as noted above.
 

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One thing to be aware of is that you are quoting the consumption "from the wall".
This is an interesting point, that will be argued over & over ad infinitum. Some are more interested in what the car reports it uses from trip to trip, others in their actual cost of ownership including power lost to resistances, heating & other factors.

Personally, I am a lot more interested in the "from the wall" efficiency & costs than what the car reports to me that it is using. In my experience the accuracy of a consumption computer in a car can't be trusted (EV or ICE). I used to track my diesel costs in a spreadsheet before my first EV and by my calculations the computer in the car was anything between 5-20% inaccurate between fills. It's a very simple manual calculation - litres put into the car to fill it up divided by miles traveled since the last time it was filled. It's a bit more complicated with an EV unless you always charge at home & have data from your charger or you only use chargers than give you some decent stats.

I did start to track my ID.3 power usage from the wall but my car has been back at the dealer for exactly half of my 48 days of ownership so far, so I've scrapped that idea & will start again when it's sorted out.
 
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Personally, I am a lot more interested in the "from the wall" efficiency & costs than what the car reports to me that it is using. In my experience the accuracy of a consumption computer in a car can't be trusted (EV or ICE). I used to track my diesel costs in a spreadsheet before my first EV and by my calculations the computer in the car was anything between 5-20% inaccurate between fills. It's a very simple manual calculation - litres put into the car to fill it up divided by miles traveled since the last time it was filled. It's a bit more complicated with an EV unless you always charge at home & have data from your charger or you only use chargers than give you some decent stats.
Doing so is absolutely valid from a cost of ownership standpoint and like you, I have spreadsheets of every drop of fuel that I have ever bought for my personal ICE cars.

However, the OP is extrapolating range from the "wall to wheel" efficiency:

So I'm getting 1.84 miles per kWh, range of 107 miles on full charge
Which is clearly not valid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Does the amount in the battery need to be added when you collected it....?
On the 4/1/2021 —— charge was ...
It was at 100% when collected on 4 Jan. So I have charged the car with 266.42 kWh which enabled me to drive 492 miles hence 1.84 miles per 1 kWh of charge
 

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One thing to be aware of is that you are quoting the consumption "from the wall".
Hi, I cant think why measuring from the wall wouldn't be the correct way to measure and benchmark efficiency. You wouldn't measure ICE efficiency by allowing for losses (friction etc) within the engine and deducting this from the fuel bill. I'm having a small meter installed on the spur which feeds the wall charger for exactly this reason.

Surely this is how all EVs should be compared ?
 

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Hi, I cant think why measuring from the wall wouldn't be the correct way to measure and benchmark efficiency. You wouldn't measure ICE efficiency by allowing for losses (friction etc) within the engine and deducting this from the fuel bill. I'm having a small meter installed on the spur which feeds the wall charger for exactly this reason.

Surely this is how all EVs should be compared ?
You can measure it any way you want. It doesn't make it correct.

You said it yourself, you don't count losses in an ICE, so why would you count charging losses in the case of EV? Your example is wrong though, I would say that charging is equivalent to your losses while refueling, e.g. spill or evaporation. So, if you spill some petrol while filling up, do you count it in your ICE consumption?
 
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WLTP is warm weather and unlikely for most times of year. Short journeys in winter will always be terrible.

It's worth checking tyre pressures as having them low seems to make a bigger dent in EV efficiency.
 

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You can measure it any way you want. It doesn't make it correct.

You said it yourself, you don't count losses in an ICE, so why would you count charging losses in the case of EV? Your example is wrong though, I would say that charging is your losses while refueling, e.g. spill or evaporation. So, if you spill some petrol while filling up, do you count it in your ICE consumption?
Losses in an ICE are inherent in the MPG. Losses charging an EV should be inherent in the miles per KWh. Fuel spill and evaporation aren't significant.

Surely any energy which is burned with charging losses then this needs to be considered and in the real world to benchmark between vehilces.
 
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