Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just seen that Mazda has announced its first EV - an SUV but with a very small battery. There are some videos on YouTube and some info on the Mazda site.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Supposedly they've gone for a 35.5 kWh battery (I'm assuming total not usable) to have a better whole of life carbon footprint, which is commendable if true. However, they should have designed an efficient lower slung hatchback instead of yet another pseudo-SUV that probably will be lucky to get more than 3.5mpkWh. On top of that they've capped charging at 50kW. Seems a bit half-hearted overall

I do like the interior though and have a bit of a soft spot for the RX-8 doors
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes seems a very tentative dipping your toe in the EV market. Most competitors are putting 50kw batteries in this size vehicle. The doors are a bit of a gimmick but the interior looks nice. Price will be key but perhaps they are not looking for volume sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
As they’re quite a late entrant into the market perhaps they’re struggling to secure battery supply and want to sell as many units as possible with smaller packs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
This is Designed to be a BEVx, utilizing a small rotary engine as a range-extender, making a battery pack larger than that required for normal driving range redundant.

Equipped with a CHAdeMO port and a V-to ? device, it could also be a formidable mobile electricity source.

Looks like the ICE will likely be placed in that large empty space under the hood (bonnet) shown in the illustration at the link below:


This video on an earlier prototype shows the rotary installation, CHAdeMO port, and offers some alternative ICE fueling choices.

I'd prefer to use propane, myself.

At ~6 minutes, thirty seconds into the video, begins detail description with English translation.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
As a pure EV it's really nothing to shout about (an e-Golf in SUV clothing from a powertrain/brattery point of view), but keep that battery size and put in the rotary REX and I can see the potential of this. If it can keep costs down and say get 2x cars for every one Niro on the road (for a simialr price), and certainly in places like Japan and the UK where daily travel is on the low side most of the time this will be EV only and they can get more psudo EVs on the road than other manufacturers. Mazda do things differently, and this could be a winning differentiator for them.

I would also argue that their drives more like an ICE than EV mantra is again foused on it being seen as primarily a rotary REX and not a pure BEV. It will be interesting to see if the battery size stays the same when they release more details on the REX model, and the size of the fuel tank as well for total range of the car (will it be like an i3 REX?).

Iteresting to see in the demo they used CHAdeMO but have seemingly switched to CCS. Maybe they are considering differentiating rapid chargers for domestic (Japan) and overseas markets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Auto Express have an article on the MX30. It says that it can be offered as a pure electric model (35.5kWh battery and range of c125 miles); a battery model with a range-extender; and, a hybrid. There is no price information but speculation that the full electric version could be about £30k before grant. U.K. sales are unlikely before 2021.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,270 Posts
Depends if they do a proper EV version. The Ioniq had a good EV version, compared to the MG ZS where the EV version has hardly any EV specific features and suffers a bit from it.

Apparently they went out of their way to make it as like an ICE as possible, which doesn't bode well. The best things about EVs are all the ways they differ from fossils!
 

·
Live by the sword. Don't intend to die by it.
Joined
·
512 Posts
This is Designed to be a BEVx, utilizing a small rotary engine as a range-extender, making a battery pack larger than that required for normal driving range redundant.
I remember Mazda claimed to have made a breakthrough in Wankel rotary efficiency a few years ago, but then everything went quiet. I love Mazda for being unconventional, but they need to just let go of rotary combustion. Well, combustion in general.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,162 Posts
Rotary engines have (had?) a place as a range extender. They are compact for the amount of power out. A rotary Rex would not have to be underpowered the way the i3 REx is. The primary shortcomings of low torque and low thermal efficiency are less of an issue in occasional REx duty.


This Mazda would have been a winner during the 24kWh era. Too bad it is arriving about the same time as range extended EVs aren't so attractive compared to BEVs.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,162 Posts
Huh. I didn't see this coming...

Will this car be competitive in 2021? I'm not so sure. Mazda make driver's cars so there could be a Niche.

There could be a lot of people still wanting the reassurance of a REx? Dunno.

124059
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
In the U.K. for around £30k it will be competing with other SUVs that are full BEVs with 50kW batteries like the Citroen DS and the Peugeot 2008.
Seems a strange decision by Mazda. But then again Toyota prefer to make money and stick with hybrids knowing that they can make more cars using less expensive materials.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,162 Posts
Seems a strange decision by Mazda.
Many of Mazda's decisions seem strange until you drive one. Most Mazda's are driver's cars. Smaller battery will be lighter. The Mazda will probably drive circles around the DS and 2008 until the battery runs down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
My only recent experience is the Mazda MX5 and yes that is a great car to drive. But not sure most buyers of SUVs have great driving experience as number one criterion for purchase. Plus Kia and Hyundai have shown you can still have a certain degree of fun in an SUV BEV with a decent battery/ range.
However, I will look forward to driving the Mazda MX30 when it is available.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,435 Posts
Rear access looks very poor - I guess aimed at people who rarely carry rear passengers? Also the "drive like an ICE" with fake inside noise and lower torque seems odd. Or maybe they know something about customers we don't?

I assume the objective is to build a niche car to control demand, a bit like the Mini (small 3 door) and Honda e. Legacy manufacturers can't make a mass appeal EV or could end up with demand they can't fulfill - Hyundai-Kia being a good example. In that scenario people might keep their existing car longer which could hurt their sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
You get a quick look at the rather compact x ICE at ~7 Minutes, 30 seconds into the video below.

I will likely only be interested if it corrects some of the major flaws in the USA BMW i-3, the only BEVx ever sold here, and has:

Driver-control of the rotary ICE on-board charger (not only available after battery substantially depleted) with sufficient fuel capacity for both long trips and extended stationary generation.

Correct port: CHAdeMO, with V-to-all capability.

Correct fuel, propane (LPG), not gasoline.

And yes, I realize it's one-in-a-million odds that it will have all three of those features...

The car driven later in this video is the old x-less prototype, and in that form, seems to be a fairly generic mid-range BEV.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
The Volt?
GM called it an EREV...

Whatever it was, the reason it died (and the i3 BEVx now appears close to the end) is that the ICEs in both vehicles were over-sized to meet the absurd requirement of providing kW output sufficient for normal driving (or nearly so) following battery depletion.

Let us hope Mazda understands that a much smaller ICE, both lighter and cheaper than those both GM and BMW used, is sufficient as long as the charging function can be selected long before the battery nears depletion.

A much smaller on-board ICE generator with output as low as somewhere between 10 kW to 20 kW, supplied by a five to ten gallon fuel tank, would ~triple the non-stop range of the MX30 EV, at a small fraction of the cost and efficiency degradation that would result from adding the ~80 kW of battery pack necessary to meet the same objective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
off-topic:

I think they missed a trick here. Mx5 e would have been very interesting with that battery size.
WOULD A MAZDA RX THAT USES A ROTARY AS A RANGE EXTENDER STILL BE A TRUE RX-8 SUCCESSOR?

If Mazda goes ahead with this, we could wind up with a distinctly Japanese counterpart to the Polestar 1—but calling it rotary-powered would be a stretch.




The Mazda RX-Vision GT3 concept—a race car variant of the RX-Vision unveiled several years ago—will only ever exist in the world of the Gran Turismo Sport video game series, but it's a sign that the automaker still considers the stylish car to be relevant. Whether a production version would receive rotary power in any form remains unclear...

 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top