Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
21 - 40 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Renault Zoe 50
Joined
·
23,565 Posts
Obviously there is (currently at least) no rule against a PHEV being plugged into a public charger - but this is about what’s the most pragmatic, sensible, efficient and ultimately polite use of a scarce resource.

Lots of things in the world work better when people do what makes the most sense for the system as a whole, rather than what would be most beneficial for them personally, even if there aren’t specific rules requiring such behaviour.

Instances of an EV driver looking to use a charger, not being able to because a PHEV is plugged in, but finding the PHEV owner hanging around so that an EV driver can politely ask them if they can please use it are going to be extremely rare. Almost always the PHEV driver will have gone off somewhere for a few hours.
Can you tell me why the PHEV’s electric miles are worth less than yours, or say a Nissan Leaf with a 3.6 kW charger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
When I purchased a BEV, I accepted that long journeys would require planning and potential delays waiting for or searching for a suitable charger. The time required to charge from a destination charger means that I would typically only want to use one for a long stop ie overnight or on a day out. I also anticipate that in locations with only a couple of destination chargers there is a good chance that another BEV or PHEV will have got there first so would never rely on them for an essential charge. Equally, as Bill N said, it is unlikely that anyone using a destination charger would stay with their car, so again I would never rely on getting access.

Every mile that can be driven on electric is a good thing. I would encourage any PHEV driver to use a destination charger whenever they have a convenient opportunity, but as Donald said, don’t get obsessed about it, and leave us BEV drivers to look after ourselves.

Enjoy your new PHEV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
@cah197
The other way to think about owning a PHEV is the battery is for short local trips, which can pretty much be 100% electric.

Then you have the ICE for long range trips.
Have to say that's a very mature way to look at it (and I don't normally agree with anything cah197 says) but this is exactly how we use my wifes Outlander its never been charged on a public charger. I on the other hand have been fully electric for 81/2 years. If anyone ones to troll me for driving a PHEV bring it on but do it to my face not on a keyboard lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Had a PHEV before we switched to a BEV. Never used a public charger because it was never convenient, not because of concern for BEV drivers.. Still managed to do 50% of our mileage on electric before lock down, after that about 80% electric. Now we are fully BEV and would not expect to get preferential access to destination chargers. If we frequently undertook long journeys, I would probably have gone for another PHEV or ICE. Horses for courses.
 

·
EVEZY code d55d6 *** Try my car cost calculator
'19 i3 120Ah / '20 Kona 64kWh / '21 e208 / '22 ID.3 Family
Joined
·
3,756 Posts
I don’t think BEV drivers necessarily expect preferential access, I just think it’d be nice and polite for PHEV owners to have an appropriate level of consideration (or concern) for what’s the most pragmatic approach in a given situation - and all circumstances are of course slightly different.

So, for example, take a hotel with two Tesla designation chargers. One is only for Teslas, and a Tesla is using it. The other is designated for use by electric vehicles of any brand. Unless there’s a hotel rule preventing use of it by PHEVs, a PHEV driver arriving at, say, 8pm could legitimately choose to plug in and leave their car there over night. "First come, first served" and all that.

A BEV driver arriving at, say, 8:30pm is then not able to get any charge.

I have the view, and nothing is going to change this, that this would be a disappointing outcome.

Ideally, the PHEV driver would have considered that a BEV driver, with a car with the potential to make far more use of the scarce resource that is the single possible charger, would be better off being able to charge there. The net gain to the PHEV driver, and to the overall system, of a PHEV charging there is far smaller than the benefit to the BEV driver, and to the overall system, of the BEV charging there. The BEV driver would in many cases then need to plan in additional on route charging, with the potential for associated impacts on other BEV drivers, as well as the personal impact on their journey time.

The impact on the PHEV driver, should they have chosen to not charge, is far smaller in comparison.

It’s about making the best use of the scarce resource. If destination charging was far more prevalent than it is (relative to the number of BEVs), then obviously the equation would be different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
When I purchased a BEV, I accepted that long journeys would require planning and potential delays waiting for or searching for a suitable charger. The time required to charge from a destination charger means that I would typically only want to use one for a long stop ie overnight or on a day out. I also anticipate that in locations with only a couple of destination chargers there is a good chance that another BEV or PHEV will have got there first so would never rely on them for an essential charge. Equally, as Bill N said, it is unlikely that anyone using a destination charger would stay with their car, so again I would never rely on getting access.

Every mile that can be driven on electric is a good thing. I would encourage any PHEV driver to use a destination charger whenever they have a convenient opportunity, but as Donald said, don’t get obsessed about it, and leave us BEV drivers to look after ourselves.

Enjoy your new PHEV.
Hi @Soula,

Thanks for the different perspective regarding PHEV drivers using public chargers.

Seeing all the replies to this thread so far, I'm not going to obsess about charging while I'm out and about, but will do when it's worthwhile.

And thanks, I'm very much enjoying the car so far!

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I don’t think BEV drivers necessarily expect preferential access, I just think it’d be nice and polite for PHEV owners to have an appropriate level of consideration (or concern) for what’s the most pragmatic approach in a given situation - and all circumstances are of course slightly different.

So, for example, take a hotel with two Tesla designation chargers. One is only for Teslas, and a Tesla is using it. The other is designated for use by electric vehicles of any brand. Unless there’s a hotel rule preventing use of it by PHEVs, a PHEV driver arriving at, say, 8pm could legitimately choose to plug in and leave their car there over night. "First come, first served" and all that.

A BEV driver arriving at, say, 8:30pm is then not able to get any charge.

I have the view, and nothing is going to change this, that this would be a disappointing outcome.

Ideally, the PHEV driver would have considered that a BEV driver, with a car with the potential to make far more use of the scarce resource that is the single possible charger, would be better off being able to charge there. The net gain to the PHEV driver, and to the overall system, of a PHEV charging there is far smaller than the benefit to the BEV driver, and to the overall system, of the BEV charging there. The BEV driver would in many cases then need to plan in additional on route charging, with the potential for associated impacts on other BEV drivers, as well as the personal impact on their journey time.

The impact on the PHEV driver, should they have chosen to not charge, is far smaller in comparison.

It’s about making the best use of the scarce resource. If destination charging was far more prevalent than it is (relative to the number of BEVs), then obviously the equation would be different.
No offence, we obviously have a completely different perspective, with respect to EVs.

When I made the free choice to get an EV, I needed to drive long journey occasionally and did not want to be dependant on the limited charging infrastructure so I chose to get a PHEV. I only charged at home but had I stayed in a hotel etc with a destination charger, I would not have hesitated to use it.

I now have a BEV and, if I was on a long trip and staying away, I would ensure that I have enough charge for the next morning before going to bed. Either by being plugged into a destination charger that I found to be available when I arrived or, more likely, charging up before arriving at the hotel. I would not consider any site with only a couple of destination chargers reliable enough to depend on, especially at somewhere like a hotel, where there is a high probability that they would already have been taken by another guest, a member of staff or even a passing EV.

If a BEV driver arrived at a hotel with enough charge to start their next journey, say about 40%, should they leave the chargers free in case another BEV driver (foolishly?) arrives with only a few percent remaining. I very much doubt it. I chose to get a BEV, I know the state of the charging infrastructure, it is my responsibility to deal with the consequences. Relying on the good will of other drivers is, sadly, a strategy that is likely to result in frequent disappointment, especially as EVs move into the mainstream.
 

·
EVEZY code d55d6 *** Try my car cost calculator
'19 i3 120Ah / '20 Kona 64kWh / '21 e208 / '22 ID.3 Family
Joined
·
3,756 Posts
It’s not about relying of goodwill, it’s just hoping that there might be some about. Obviously there isn’t always much of it about in many areas of life, and this is just another example.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Hi @Soula,

Thanks for the different perspective regarding PHEV drivers using public chargers.

Seeing all the replies to this thread so far, I'm not going to obsess about charging while I'm out and about, but will do when it's worthwhile.

And thanks, I'm very much enjoying the car so far!

Nick
Hi @Cubbington

Exactly the right mindset for a PHEV. Good to hear you are enjoying the car. We found ours a good introduction to electric driving and despite what some predicted, it was economical and reliable. Who knows, maybe by the time it needs replacing, the charging infrastructure will have improved and you may be able to consider a full electric, but don’t hold your breath.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
It’s not about relying of goodwill, it’s just hoping that there might be some about. Obviously there isn’t always much of it about in many areas of life, and this is just another example.
I think this may have worked when EV drivers were a very small “club” of enthusiasts, but now EVs are moving into the mainstream, competition for chargers will be no different than competition for parking places. Ask a parent with small kids how often they find the reserved spaces used by people with older children, or no kids at all.

Enough said I think, best just agree to differ. May the charge be with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hi @Cubbington

Exactly the right mindset for a PHEV. Good to hear you are enjoying the car. We found ours a good introduction to electric driving and despite what some predicted, it was economical and reliable. Who knows, maybe by the time it needs replacing, the charging infrastructure will have improved and you may be able to consider a full electric, but don’t hold your breath.
Thanks @Soula, well I have the car on a five year lease, and my hope is that technology and the infrastructure will allow me to go electric, however like you say, I'm not going to hold my breath.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the extremely comfortable seats and just drive the car...I pressed the GTE button the other day, that made things a little more interesting!

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Thanks @Soula, well I have the car on a five year lease, and my hope is that technology and the infrastructure will allow me to go electric, however like you say, I'm not going to hold my breath.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the extremely comfortable seats and just drive the car...I pressed the GTE button the other day, that made things a little more interesting!

Nick
I don’t know about the VW, but with our BMW 225 you could either drive it using maximum electric and have a smooth comfortable 2WD car with totally acceptable performance, or you could use bothe electric and ICE and have a 4WD car with quite sporty performance for what was basically a cross between a people carrier and a hatchback. We opted for economy, but I am sure there were others who needed a family friendly car but wanted a hot(ish) hatch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
It's not as advanced as your 2 Series; it combines power from both ICE and electric motors to give it a boost, but keeps it in 2WD.

I had ordered a Volvo V60 T6 which had a similar power train as your 2 Series, however the order went through, we didn't hear anything for a few weeks and were then informed that the model year had changed...spec went down and price shot up...by which time the Arteon had become available as PHEV, which it wasn't when I first started looking at the beginning of the year, so a blessing in disguise really!

I was wary about the relatively low 150-ish bhp ICE in the Arteon vs 250 bhp in the V60, but it's strong enough and (fingers crossed!) I won't be able to lose my licence with it's combined 215 bhp and laid back driving style, compared to the Volvo's combined 350 bhp and 4WD...To my mind the Arteon is just such a beautiful car, and there are hardly any on the road...I like the exclusivity 😉

Couple of pics below, although after a week of driving it in very mixed weather it's filthy already...

148648


148649


148650


Nick
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
31,823 Posts
148664


Well, it would always be near impossible to improve on the elegant sophistication of a Passat B8, but I can't knock the fact that they have done a pretty good job with that body kit, and a bit of work with the hammer to knock in a few extra lines!

( ;) :sneaky: )

(note to @Cubbington .. I have a Passat, you see!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Love your take it on it's styling @donald 😄 I think VW put a Passat in a hydraulic press first so it lowered, widened and lengthened it a wee bit, then went to town with the hammer!

Agreed, the Passat is a classy and understated looking car - my MD had a GTE which he loved, hence one of the first cars we looked at for me was the Arteon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Another trip into the big smoke yesterday, and another unsuccessful attempt at charging!

Spent half an hour driving around Eaton Square, eventually finding one empty spot that had a Type 1 socket, then seeing another empty spot which was that SourceLondon network I saw in Westfield...the only option was to tap with their RFID card!

I'm not obsessing about it, but would like to try to cut pollution and EV it in London (not that I visit regularly).

Best,

Nick
 

·
Registered
Kona64
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
...I pressed the GTE button the other day, that made things a little more interesting!

Nick
Little useful note
If you're on a motorway with the Auto Cruise turned on, and say set to 72mph, and the GTE mode on
If a lorry or other holdup drops the speed to 50 or so, hold tight if the vehicle in front moves over quickly
It don't half pick up speed !!!!
#Passenger_coffee_spill

PS please enlighten us what you're getting real miles out of the HV battery, do you see 33 or so ?
My golf had the smaller battery but it will be interesting if you are north of true 30, and for those considering your car or I guess a similar drivetrain on the Superb Estate PHEV
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cubbington

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
31,823 Posts
Another trip into the big smoke yesterday, and another unsuccessful attempt at charging!

Spent half an hour driving around Eaton Square, eventually finding one empty spot that had a Type 1 socket, then seeing another empty spot which was that SourceLondon network I saw in Westfield...the only option was to tap with their RFID card!

I'm not obsessing about it, but would like to try to cut pollution and EV it in London (not that I visit regularly).

Best,

Nick
To cut pollution in a destination city with your car/PHEV, select the mode which sustains the charge when leaving home, and use the charge for pure-EV-mode in city streets only.

So if you have (say) 20 mile electric range, turn to pure-EV when 10 miles out from your city-centre destination parking spot.

This not only reduces your pollution in the inner city but also reduces your overall fuel costs. Electricity is the energy of choice for slow city driving, much more efficient, much smoother, etc, etc ... so hold on to your charge and use it there.

If you are in slow traffic with the engine coming on and off, there is little worse for either emissions or for general comfort and refinement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Little useful note
If you're on a motorway with the Auto Cruise turned on, and say set to 72mph, and the GTE mode on
If a lorry or other holdup drops the speed to 50 or so, hold tight if the vehicle in front moves over quickly
It don't half pick up speed !!!!
#Passenger_coffee_spill

PS please enlighten us what you're getting real miles out of the HV battery, do you see 33 or so ?
My golf had the smaller battery but it will be interesting if you are north of true 30, and for those considering your car or I guess a similar drivetrain on the Superb Estate PHEV

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the ACC - I'm still getting used to it, and it certainly needs driver intervention. It's a bit binary in it's reduction in speed when you drive past a sign for road works, variable speed limit, etc. It slams the brakes on just after going past the sign, not great for cars behind me!

I've not calculated the real world battery range, however the We Connect app is gradually showing less range on a full charge (have charged it about 10 times now). When I first got it, We Connected showed around 35 miles, and it's now down to about 25. I've got a decent trip to make tomorrow on mixed roads (but no motorway), so will leave it in pure electric mode, see what I get out of it and report back. Remember it's a heavier car than both the Passat and Superb, so I'd expect the range to be somewhat lower than both.

@donald thanks for the hints on how to set the car up for city driving - leaving the car to it's own devices is fine if you can charge up at the end of your journey is my thought so far. Using the inbuilt satnav yesterday, again it managed the ICE/EV transitions perfectly, saving the battery for the last few miles heading into London, being empty by the time we got to our destination, and with a very impressive 76.3mpg over 94 miles from Gloucestershire to SW1.

We stopped in at Brent Cross shopping centre on our travels today, hunted out the EV bays, only to find 4, one of which was broken, and we couldn't use them as they were RFID card only, operated by yet another company...

The infrastructure in our capital is so far not filling me with hope of migrating to BEV in 5 years, as its woefully inadequate from what I've seen so far...no wonder BEV drivers don't want us PHEV drivers wanting to use them...I'd have permanent range anxiety if I had a BEV right now.

Changing the subject, I did play with the GTE mode a little near the end of our journey back today and the battery regeneration really canes the fuel economy, but is fun - my boss said that he'd asked VW if they could program his Passat to permanently start in GTE mode as it's the only mode he drove it in 😄

Cheers,

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
Good morning @gladini ,

Yesterday's journey saw 28 miles on pure EV before the ICE kicked in.

That was a mix of dual carriageway, national speed limit and 50mph roads. I wasn't driving Miss Daisy, but stuck to the speed limits and drove in a relaxed fashion.

The customer I was visiting let me charge the car, and I got just under 5 hours before leaving, so the battery wasn't full, but not far off - it's consistently taking around 5h 20m - 5h 25m to charge from the 3 pin plug, according to the We Connect app.

The journey home saw 22 miles purely on EV; the range was showing I had about 6 miles of battery left, but I'd started to climb the Air Balloon hill near Cheltenham when the ICE kicked in - if any of you know that hill, it's extremely steep, so I'm not surprised!

Cheers,

Nick
 
21 - 40 of 60 Posts
Top