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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. Newbie here, about to venture into the full EV world and looking forward to reading the discussions in this forum and to pick up (and share?) hints and tips.

Actually, I broke with etiquette and made my 1st post in the PUG forum section as was planning to take out a PCP on an e208 before the p.i.c.g. grant was reduced. After that, it made us re-evaluate which car to go for.

Currently, I have an Outlander PHEV MY19 as a company car. Yes, I took the car because of the low BIK and also because the 2.2 petrol engine gave me the higher fuel allowance per mile. However, I installed a home charger unit (Zappi to go with my solar PV) and I use the EV mode to its full potential – even charging during longer journeys (with the Chademo) to use electric rather than petrol (regardless whether it was more cost effective – just because it’s a little greener). So, I'm not one of those that just lug a heavy battery around with no intention of ever charging it 😏. This car is due for a change in December 2021, so am debating whether to find a suitable EV (to house a family of 4 plus small dog and that accommodate a roof box) or another PHEV. My longest regular round-trip is about 150 miles. Currently, I’m fancying the Enyaq – if it will be affordable.

For my wife’s car, which does a daily commute of 39 miles, she’s currently using an 11 year old diesel which is starting to cost more money to keep on the road with repairs etc. This is the one we were considering replacing with an e208. After much debate and checking reviews etc, then with the reduction in the p.i.c.g., we actually found a good deal on a Mini Electric (sorry PUG guys!) from a North West dealer – strange considering no other local dealers seemed to be offering any further discounts or incentives above the grant for the Mini. So, we’ve gone for that (Level 2 trim) and should expect it in early June! The lower range is not an issue (would only need charging at most every other night), and it seemed to make the most sense.

Anyway, apologies for the long-winded intro….
 

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Welcome. I have an e-208, but won’t hold your decision to go for a Mini against you! What are your company’s rules about what vehicle you can choose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cheers E7EV.

At the time I got the PHEV our company wouldn't allow us to take BEVs, but technology has moved on since then. This year will be the first time that BEVs will be on the scheme. I'm classed as a "high mileage" user, but I don't do more than about 11k miles per year all-in.

We've always had a good range of cars to choose from, and choice depends mainly on how much personal contribution is to be made.

For the Outlander, I've found it extremely low cost to run ( for personal use) and the HMRC fuel allowance more than pays all the fuel use and charging costs. But, I took that on a 3 year lease (instead of our standard 4) because I figured there'd be better alternatives in the near future.
 

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The Enyaq is looking a very promising car at the moment, there is the E-Niro, which was the best out there for a while but many others have now caught up.

The Peugeot’s don’t do well on their real range vs claimed range - and if you trawl through the forums this is a common theme.

What you need to work out is what your largest normal commute is - and try and get a car that will do at least that in the winter x so if it’s say 250m then you need something with a real world 280x300 range which are few and far between.

There are too many cars out there claiming 250m ranges but struggling to hit 200 in the real world - this video is a good example - watch the first and last bits, the middle gets a bit boring.


I would also consider Machxe (can be had with a 99kwh battery for a 370m range) and there are some others coming with long ranges too.

Do they give you a budget?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks SoulGW,

I had started looking at the Enyaq 80 with a few options, but now, with it being over the threshold for picg, I'm starting to look at the 60 version as I don't need to be greedy on the range. Even with loads of options it would still have a lower price than my Outlander when I got it.

I don't have a regular daily commute as such. If I go into the office it's a round trip of 44 miles, so I currently do all that on battery as can charge at work. Other work journeys are usually up to 150 miles tops (round trip). For trips with journeys over 100 miles each way, then I'd expect to take a break anyway (coffee and age compel me to do so!).

For budget, I guess I could go up to around £45k list price, but I'm too tight for that (I lived in Yorkshire for 16 years so it must have rubbed off on me a bit! ). I prefer to keep my personal contributions down and currently pay about £100 p.m. towards the Outlander. Obviously, a BEV would have much lower BIK % than a PHEV( at least for now), so a slightly higher personal contribution may not be an issue.
 

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The Eniro would easily it a family of 4 and a small dog, good range with the 64K model, I would guess 250 real world no problem, whne I collected mine it was 186 miles back and I arrived home with 62 still showing and 33% battery remaining and that was 70mph all the way virtually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks, artyman

To be honest, I never liked the look of the niro. I once went to a Kia showroom to look at the Optima estate when I was checking out PHEVs (before they pulled it from sale) and they had the niro next to it. After checking it out I wasn't too keen. Also, the boot (while ample for most) was a bit too small for me.
 

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Ev6 and Ioniq 5 may be out by then and about 45k they may have genuine 300m range.

1%BIK this year 2% next so very low, would you need to personally contribute?

Otherwise, Enya ticks most boxes and about £32k
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ev6 and Ioniq 5 may be out by then and about 45k they may have genuine 300m range.

1%BIK this year 2% next so very low, would you need to personally contribute?

Otherwise, Enya ticks most boxes and about £32k
Yes those look to be exceptionally nice. There'd definitely be a personal contribution from my side, but would have to weigh it all up in the end. I should receive details in the next few weeks about choosing the replacement car (even though not due until December).

The Enyaq ticks all the boxes for now, and I prefer its looks to those of the ID.4. The Nissan Ariya was also on my radar, but doesn't seem to come with roof rails (my God, I'm starting to sound like my dad!).
 

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Who pays for your fuel? I ask because don’t forget you pay a fuel scale charge on the outlander (although it’s low) but nothing at all on an EV, so remember that saving too....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Company pays business fuel as HMRC rates per mile. I actually make money with the PHEV because I find it quite economical, well - a small amount. I rarely use fuel for personal use except on the odd holiday trip etc.
 

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I went from a 2015 Outlander to an Ioniq BEV, then back to a 2019 Outlander which goes back next month. I ended up back in another Outlander because the Ioniq 38kW hadn’t been released yet and there was too long of a wait for things such as the Kona or eNiro.

I’m ditching the company car scheme and have a Citroen e-C4 arriving in a couple of weeks. The Citroen suffers the same range limitations as it’s Peugeot stablemates when driven in normal mode but has been shown to achieve around 190 miles when driven in eco-mode at 5° C external temperature.
 

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Hello all. Newbie here, about to venture into the full EV world and looking forward to reading the discussions in this forum and to pick up (and share?) hints and tips.

Actually, I broke with etiquette and made my 1st post in the PUG forum section as was planning to take out a PCP on an e208 before the p.i.c.g. grant was reduced. After that, it made us re-evaluate which car to go for.

Currently, I have an Outlander PHEV MY19 as a company car. Yes, I took the car because of the low BIK and also because the 2.2 petrol engine gave me the higher fuel allowance per mile. However, I installed a home charger unit (Zappi to go with my solar PV) and I use the EV mode to its full potential – even charging during longer journeys (with the Chademo) to use electric rather than petrol (regardless whether it was more cost effective – just because it’s a little greener). So, I'm not one of those that just lug a heavy battery around with no intention of ever charging it 😏. This car is due for a change in December 2021, so am debating whether to find a suitable EV (to house a family of 4 plus small dog and that accommodate a roof box) or another PHEV. My longest regular round-trip is about 150 miles. Currently, I’m fancying the Enyaq – if it will be affordable.

For my wife’s car, which does a daily commute of 39 miles, she’s currently using an 11 year old diesel which is starting to cost more money to keep on the road with repairs etc. This is the one we were considering replacing with an e208. After much debate and checking reviews etc, then with the reduction in the p.i.c.g., we actually found a good deal on a Mini Electric (sorry PUG guys!) from a North West dealer – strange considering no other local dealers seemed to be offering any further discounts or incentives above the grant for the Mini. So, we’ve gone for that (Level 2 trim) and should expect it in early June! The lower range is not an issue (would only need charging at most every other night), and it seemed to make the most sense.

Anyway, apologies for the long-winded intro….
Be sure to check out the winter range of the Mini. It might be less than you are expecting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks @Off-Worlder , some interesting shifts there. I don't have the option to opt-out, although the scheme is generally good and mostly flexible.

I'll see how the prices look on the available BEVs in the next few weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Be sure to check out the winter range of the Mini. It might be less than you are expecting.
I don't see it being an issue, really. Commuting for my wife is only 39 miles and it won't be used for long trips. Will also precondition before using.

I also watched the Carwow range test during summer where it managed 154 miles before dying, so was quite impressed by that.
 

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Nice to read your story.
In my unbiased opinion, from years of experience owning cars, anything coming from the Volkswagen Group should not even be considered.

Volkswagen botched the E-Tron, then they botched the ID3. Before that, they botched most other ICE’s they ever built.
The TDI cars may be efficient on paper, but they love visiting your mechanic for big costly repairs. The engines are actually pretty solid, all the rest is utter junk.
I owned an A4 (B5) which was very efficient but from an engineering point of view was built like a disposable POS.
Same experience for a friend of mine whose Jetta Tdi had costly injector issues and then the blown gearbox put her into debt. She told me that her paychecks were being hogged by her car.

You can find this a lot in how VW built the ID3. Cheap materials, cheap software. Cost-cuttings all over an expensive car.
That’s only the part that you get to see, so who knows how the battery and drivetrain is built?
In your 4 year lease, you may not notice much of this as many issues only show up later. But if you’re unlucky, it can turn into a nightmare during the first years too.

Theybe been building ICE’s for decades and they never built anything that lasted. I’m not remotely confident that they can be better at something new when they couldn’t get things that they’ve been building for decades right. That’s why I can’t recommend anything from VAG or PSA or Fiat and I would also add Tesla. Tesla because they got much of the EV part right or ok, but they still have to get around to learning to build proper cars. These OEM’s build disposable cars that last 100k miles and line the dealerships’ pockets after that.
Just an hour ago as I was getting home with my Leaf, a neighbour who doesn’t own a car asked me if I could bring a few bottles of water to his friends stranded in their Lancia Delta a few kilometres away. The Delta’s “water broke”. Sigh. I couldn’t take it with my Leaf as it was near empty but I also have a Toyota Corolla so I offered to help.
An 18 year old Corolla with 6 times the mileage of the Lancia with nothing but basic maintenance done to it going to the Lancia’s rescue. Sigh.

You may take the reliability of your Outlander for granted. Don’t.
Hyundai, Nissan, KIA.
These are the EV brands that have not botched the basic elements of car building and dealt with the issues that arose. These are the brands that are upfront about their EV’s, these are the brands that are setting the standards for the EV industry.
These are the brands that deliver on their promises, that won’t sell you something that is in Beta testing.

Many people criticise small aspects of the MK1 Nissan Leaf. But if you look at all the issues that new EV’s are having, I can’t help but applaud for all the things that the engineers at Nissan did get right before the Leaf‘s mass market launch. That car must have been in testing for years to launch so flawlessly. Even the one big issue of batteries in hot climates, Nissan was ready with a fix and replaced them under warranty.

So my 2 cents, these are the leading EV brands and all the rest have yet to prove themselves as usable, reliable, convenient cars before we can even start talking about range or performance.

An EV that gives you headaches is likely to waste more of your energy, time and money than an EV that has less range, charges slower or takes 5 seconds longer to accelerate to 60. In other words, it’s going to take a lot of 0 to 60’s and faster charges to make up for the time you spend calling to customer service to get your electric lemon fixed, paperwork for replacement car, getting a car back that isn’t fixed properly, , botched paint jobs and dangling spoilers, new issues lurking at every turn, etc...

Do your research and don’t choose a lemon.
 

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I am looking at upgrading from a 2015 Leaf to a BEV that can comfortably do over 200 mile family trips. Was thinking of an e-niro but see 2nd hand i-pace available for similar prices am I mad for considering the latter?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
@SuperLeaf , thanks for the in depth comments and share of experiences. I agree with a lot of points, but guess much is down to individual experiences.

Over the years, we've had numerous cars. The worst for me were Vauxhalls ( 2 models from 2000s) and a Renault Mégane. The best was a BMW 320d, which was faultless for best part of 10 years and over 90k miles. Had a Toyota too, but it had its issues (but dealer was the best). Had Honda Accord which was trouble free and recently a Volvo V70 (edit V60) which was a beautiful car. The current Outlander is excellent in its own way; whilst being the slowest car I've had for a long time, it's not really an issue because it's such an easy car to drive and with acres of space.

For the VW group, I've had a Skoda which was pleasantly surprising, although only had it for 18 months. Had a Pug 307 which my wife and I hated passionately. Had a Fiat Bravo which couldn't grip to treacle and I ended up sliding on hail into a dry stone wall. Had a Fiat Panda (2nd car) where the bonnet popped up while pushing 70 on the M6. I thrashed the bonnet (Basil Fawlty style) on the hard shoulder with a wheel brace to close it.

Have NEVER had a Ford - don't know why.

Cars can be an adventure - and in some cases, character building.
 
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