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Discussion Starter #1
Hi -

I'm wondering if there have any videos or articles which have been able to talk about how the somewhat unusual lithium ion polymer battery in the Niro EV is holding up in hotter than normal conditions. I guess I also have to ask if there is any knowledge of how the battery has done in the case of an accident.

background: In the US for the moment the Niro EV is one of the best EV buys for the money if one takes the federal credit into account. However, in parts of the US where the summer heat is higher than average, some EV batteries do not fair very well. I realize that the idea is to get a vehicle with liquid cooling, but I'd also like to get some empirical information, if possible. There are none for sale within 250 miles, and if I do buy one, it will be very difficult for a year or two to get even minor service, let alone if there is a serious issue with the pack.
 

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All I can say is that the car does have proper liquid-cooled thermal battery management. One assumes they've tested it in hot climates.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
All I can say is that the car does have proper liquid-cooled thermal battery management. One assumes they've tested it in hot climates.
My inclination in 2010, before Leaf availability here in sunny Arizona, was to suspect that the Leaf might not really hold up well in this region, and that it really needed some extensive real-world use by customers, and in the end, it proved to be the case that the vehicle as designed was not right for many in this region.

For the Niro EV, yes, it has the liquid cooling, but I'm concerned about a few things. I guess we'll see.

On a related note, I stopped into a KIa dealership this past weekend and asked about a Niro EV. They were so unfamiliar with it that they spent 20 minutes thinking I was asking about a PHEV. They definitely do not have the NIro EV and they were not able to give me an idea of when they might be able to make it available.

I was on my way home from the Chevy dealership where I had a conversation about my battery. It's liquid cooled, and I won't say it has been terrible, but it is showing some signs of a possible known issue. Possibly it's something that can just be managed by following certain practices. For the most part I've been pleased, even with a little bit of wear and tear on the battery.
 

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My inclination in 2010, before Leaf availability here in sunny Arizona, was to suspect that the Leaf might not really hold up well in this region, and that it really needed some extensive real-world use by customers, and in the end, it proved to be the case that the vehicle as designed was not right for many in this region.
Yes I remember this! The original Leaf battery degraded quite badly in Arizona and the next version of the Leaf (2016 or so?) had different battery chemistry - they called it the 'lizard' battery and I think it did a bit better.

Mostly brits on this forum I think so we've not had to deal with anything like Arizona.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yes I remember this! The original Leaf battery degraded quite badly in Arizona and the next version of the Leaf (2016 or so?) had different battery chemistry - they called it the 'lizard' battery and I think it did a bit better.
Yes, I was one of those early Leaf lessees 2012-2015, and I attended that lengthy "Town Hall" in Phoenix where some Nissan execs flew in from Japan and met with Leaf drivers. I know at least one or two people in the local EV associations who I think got the Lizard chemistry. Whether it held up better or not, I unfortunately just won't consider another Leaf. Aside from the sheer amount of money that went out the door on that lease, leaving a bit of a bad taste, Nissan doesn't seem to have really become that much more enlightened about battery cooling, degradation, fast charging, inter-city travel and maybe some other things. Still, as far as I know (which isn't that far, as I haven't followed it closely for a long time) it has a decent safety record, and that should be mentioned.

I have a video somewhere, from 2010, with me bugging some hapless Nissan sales person as they drove us around a few city blocks in a not-yet-for-sale Nissan Leaf, and pestering them a bit about the battery and how it would hold up and maybe about the warranty. So, one of the reasons I am sticking with asking questions on this sort of battery concern is that the questions turned out to be the right ones back then and I think they may still apply now.


Mostly brits on this forum I think so we've not had to deal with anything like Arizona.
I generally like some of the perspective here, but yes, there's the different climate.
 

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Could be why they haven't (as far as I know) introduced the e-Niro into Australia. I'm sure I read that it was to be launched in January, but wasn't
 

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My inclination in 2010, before Leaf availability here in sunny Arizona, was to suspect that the Leaf might not really hold up well in this region, and that it really needed some extensive real-world use by customers, and in the end, it proved to be the case that the vehicle as designed was not right for many in this region.

For the Niro EV, yes, it has the liquid cooling, but I'm concerned about a few things. I guess we'll see.

On a related note, I stopped into a KIa dealership this past weekend and asked about a Niro EV. They were so unfamiliar with it that they spent 20 minutes thinking I was asking about a PHEV. They definitely do not have the NIro EV and they were not able to give me an idea of when they might be able to make it available.

I was on my way home from the Chevy dealership where I had a conversation about my battery. It's liquid cooled, and I won't say it has been terrible, but it is showing some signs of a possible known issue. Possibly it's something that can just be managed by following certain practices. For the most part I've been pleased, even with a little bit of wear and tear on the battery.
Which Chevy do you drive now? Volt or Bolt? Your experience with the Leaf mirrors what happened to Arizona customers who purchased the older KIA Soul. Massive battery degradation and many pack replacements under warranty. It did not have liquid cooling. Luckily KIA learned from their mistakes and added liquid cooling on the 2020 Soul.

In the USA, KIA only sells the Niro EV in states that have emission requirements to meet. Don't think Arizona is on the list. I would be more concerned with after-sale service than the battery pack deterioration. If your motor fails like on my Niro, you're going to have a real nightmare with a 250 mile drive to nearest approved service center.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Which Chevy do you drive now? Volt or Bolt? Your experience with the Leaf mirrors what happened to Arizona customers who purchased the older KIA Soul. Massive battery degradation and many pack replacements under warranty. It did not have liquid cooling. Luckily KIA learned from their mistakes and added liquid cooling on the 2020 Soul.

In the USA, KIA only sells the Niro EV in states that have emission requirements to meet. Don't think Arizona is on the list. I would be more concerned with after-sale service than the battery pack deterioration. If your motor fails like on my Niro, you're going to have a real nightmare with a 250 mile drive to nearest approved service center.
Thanks for writing out these points, especially the service nightmare scenario and your experience with the broken motor. With the $7500 and the competitive price and specs on the Niro EV, I have to consider it, but considerations such as you mention have given me pause.

I modified my profile so it should now show that I drive a 2013 Volt. When the price is right on a long-range liquid-cooled (suitable for Arizona) BEV, I'll trade the Volt.

Nearby, I've been surprised not to see a bit more discussion of Nissan selling the Leaf in Mexico, and whether there would also be battery degradation issues on that score. Nissan is so big in Mexico, and I wonder whether they have solved the degradation issue, or whether they don't care about their customer relationships there, or what.
 

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I don't think Nissan care about the batteries. The new Leafs with the bigger battery backs have overheating issues when rapid charging and driving fast in the UK, I can imagine there would be all sorts of cooling issues and battery control to slow charging and limiting top speeds in hot countries.
Do they sell the Leaf in Mexico? If so what battery size are they selling there?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't think Nissan care about the batteries. The new Leafs with the bigger battery backs have overheating issues when rapid charging and driving fast in the UK, I can imagine there would be all sorts of cooling issues and battery control to slow charging and limiting top speeds in hot countries.
Do they sell the Leaf in Mexico? If so what battery size are they selling there?
Nissan does sell the Leaf in Mexico, though I'm not sure how widespread it is, and I don't know what battery size they're presently hawking, but to give an idea at one dealer:


This particular dealer is in a city called Hermosillo. I'm not personally familiar with the dealer, and I don't have a translator loaded to t read the site to verify absolutely that the vehicle is for sale at that dealer (I've had one or two conversations with people about Mexico dealerships where the vehicle may appear on the site, but in reality it is not for sale there?), but my understanding from word of mouth for some years now is that Hermosillo Nissan dealers did start offering the Leaf some years ago.

Also, between Nissan and Grupo Posadas (a hotel company), they account for a decent number of charge stations (albeit restricted) that I see on the plugshare.com map.

My understanding is that Mexico is the leading EV sales country in Latin America, though this is still a low number of sales per country.
 

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Could be why they haven't (as far as I know) introduced the e-Niro into Australia. I'm sure I read that it was to be launched in January, but wasn't
It's available in Spain. We know a thing or two about heat here as well :)

On spanish forums, I have read zero issues with battery degradation on Konas or e-Niros. Even the Ioniq seems to hold up very well.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It's available in Spain. We know a thing or two about heat here as well :)

On spanish forums, I have read zero issues with battery degradation on Konas or e-Niros. Even the Ioniq seems to hold up very well.
Thanks for posting this, good to know.
 

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It's very hot in Belgium and i can confirm the Niro EV is holding up with high temperatures 37 degrees.
I noticed there was energy consumption under battery care so the cooling system kicks in.
Even while fastcharging the Niro EV can cool the battery and the interior at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
It's very hot in Belgium and i can confirm the Niro EV is holding up with high temperatures 37 degrees.
I noticed there was energy consumption under battery care so the cooling system kicks in.
Even while fastcharging the Niro EV can cool the battery and the interior at the same time.
Good to know, thanks.

Kia and Hyundai are for now declining to make the Niro EV or Kona EV widely available here in the state of Arizona in the USA. I don't know that this is a concern about the heat. I think it may just be corporate strategy that in the US they are only selling and servicing those vehicles in certain states, such as where policies push them to make plug-ins available. But I don't really know for certain. One thing I was told by a Hyundai dealer is that he gave me a guess that maybe he would be set up to sell me a Kona EV around 2022.

By the way, on my Volt dashboard the other day, it read as high as 113 F (45 C) though I've never been sure if that is under the hood or outside temp or what. I will clarify though that both with my Volt temperature gage and another one here at my house, they tend to read significantly higher than the proper scientific regional official weather readings. Still, I take them as probably accurate within a few inches or feet of whatever they are measuring. Anyway, this was a record in my observations driving the Volt (usually it gets up to 110 degrees max, and the 113 was just a spike before it settled back below 110). I am not in the hottest part of Arizona, but it's pretty hot here sometimes.
 
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