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Discussion Starter #1
I couldn't find this on the forum anywhere... please delete if it's already been posted :)

"It’s the world’s best-selling electric car with more than 100,000 examples now being driven around the world, despite having a real-world range somewhere between 70 and 90 miles, depending on how it’s driven.

In the past few months we’ve heard rumours that Nissan was planning to extend that range in the future with improved battery technology and perhaps bigger battery packs, but now it appears the Japanese automaker is getting serious about offering a longer-legged LEAF in a future model year lineup.

Nissan is even asking existing LEAF customers how much they’d pay for a 150-mile LEAF — if it were to make one, that is."

http://transportevolved.com/2014/01...-150-mile-nissan-leaf-how-much-would-you-pay/
 

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As has been the case since the first Leaf was launched Nissan has yet another oportunity here. When they launched the Leaf they were pretty much alone in the marketplace and yet, IMO, they sat on their laurels doing nothing to drive up sales and doing nothing to build the charging infrastructure they would need to drive up those sales.

Since then, now they have partnered with Ecotricity, they have started building a semi-viable national rapid charger network, they have improved on the Leaf and yet still they do nothing concrete to drive up sales.

Their opportunity here is that they have a decent and growing EV dealer network that is certainly more mature even than Tesla, they have lowered the Leaf price now to something that is nearly directly comparable to a similar specced ICE and the only thing that is now stopping them from eclipsing everyone, perhaps even Tesla and BMW in the short-term, is the limited range.

Now you all know I am no industry mogul (LOL!) but what am I missing here? Surely the must drive the Leaf forward now and range is what will do that... not 5 miles here and 10 miles there... but double or more. I think they could afford to increase price for the longer range providing they offer the existing range also at today's price or lower for those that don't want range (not everyone will).

Unfortunately though, Nissan is a global organisation and it takes many years to bring these kinds of innovations to market and that is assuming that they are forward-thinking enough to even want to do it :(
 

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Whilst more range would be nice more reliable and faster rapid charging would be my choice, the cars range suits me as it is but the Rapid charging network isnt rapid and its not reliable enough, putting in twice the battery weight would make it handle even worse than it does already not to mention it would kill the acceleration too.

I will agree though that we need range to convince people to buy the cars however so its tricky, I would just be happy if I could use more simple and reliable charging such as 22kW 3 phase AC which would be cheaper and reliable and far more abundant as its already there in most cases! and doesn't need the RFID or expensive charger.

Nissan need to bring the price of the car down not up, for me they could strip out a lot of the gadgets like folding mirrors, satnav, heated seats and all the other stuff that loads the car up in price, they also need to ditch the battery lease as that is confusing the market and killing sales especially second hand ones.

Nissan dont have a lot of time to get this right, the others are catching up and catching up very quickly, they may be the first to the table but they have no right to stay there to eat unless they bring something new to the plate.
 

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I love the Leaf and for 98% of our driving needs it is great. At the moment we have some, but not much need for > 100 miles but if this could be offered I would be keen to opt for this as I would love the increase ease this would allow us to use the EV for longer trips with a young family.

Having spoken to a number of people since getting my Leaf the over-riding conclusion most, not all come to is that if a real world range of 150 miles was offered they would get one. Whether this is a physiological threshold or whatever this has been my experience.

With a range of 150 miles in the UK most places are reachable with one or two stops. As London to Edinburgh is a hot topic, for example being able to do this with two stops, maybe three, instead of nine or so would break a lot of peoples misconceptions in my opinion.

Sure offer the <100 mile range Leaf alongside the increased range vehicle but drop the price of the lower range car, not increase the price of the 150 mile range car.
 

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150 miles real world would make a huge difference to the prospect of long range journeys. I wouldn't mind a small increase in price but, if Nissan could do this at the same price as existing Leaf's, it would give them a high boost. I'm only on an 18mth lease so I'm hoping to see some big changes before I come to buy the next EV, and 150miles range would be a great incentive for it to be another Leaf.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I do wonder whether Nissan could get close to this range without having to do THAT much on adding new battery weight.
Jack Rickard from EVTV says that ~50% Leaf battery weight is in excessive packaging and several people are buying up the modules from crashed cars to build light weight EVs :)

I suspect that a weight reduction programme might deliver a Leaf with twice the battery capacity at the same weight as todays car using identical battery cells.... a very low cost way to deliver twice the range.

This is what the modules look like once the packaging is removed;

Leaf_Battery_Module.jpg
 

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Don't know how practical this idea is but here goes any way………..
Is there no way Nissan could develop a plug in extended range battery that you hire when you needed it? If they can find the space to fit a bigger battery just leave it empty untill you need the extra range
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Is there no way Nissan could develop a plug in extended range battery that you hire when you needed it? If they can find the space to fit a bigger battery just leave it empty untill you need the extra range
The Renault ZOE has battery swap capability that could be used... however, the demise of Better Place has killed this IMO :(

Here's a picture of the ZOE battery showing the four quick release fixtures in the corners (this car has been through a crash test);

Renault_ZOE_Battery.jpg
 

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Kevin

I was more thinking of leaving the existing battery in place and then plugging another battery into a void therefore adding extra capacity when needed. If it could be carried out in just a few minuets it would also put another nail in the coffin of the refuelling/recharging taking so long debate
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I was more thinking of leaving the existing battery in place and then plugging another battery into a void therefore adding extra capacity when needed.
I understand the idea but It would weigh a lot requiring special tools to move around (or a robot like Better Place) and would probably also upset the handling of the car... in the Tesla 60kWh cars they actually add ballast to bring it up to the 85kWh battery weight.

Personally I think a removable battery like the ZOE or Tesla Model S together with battery size options will offer the best customer experience over time :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
How much do these batteries weigh anyway?
The Nissan First Responder's Guide says 684 lbs (249 kgs) on Page 9 for the complete battery assembly.

The Battery contains 48 Modules, each containing 4 cells. Each Module weighs 8.4 lbs (3.8 kgs). A lot of battery data is available on the AESC website :)

What does the excess packaging consist of and what's it for ? Safety maybe ? Or just filler ?
I'm sure Nissan would argue that everything is required ;) However, you can see that the 684 lbs battery contains 403 lbs modules which contain just 340 lbs cells (the hardware actually storing energy)... huge scope for weight reduction simply by repackaging the cells.

Beneath the skin of the Leaf is some serious technology that's waiting to get out. I have no doubt that a ~150 mile range Leaf could be built today simply by undertaking a radical repackaging of the car like BMW did with the i3. If they combined this with 100kW CCS charging you can begin to see an ICE breaker :D
 

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Beneath the skin of the Leaf is some serious technology that's waiting to get out. I have no doubt that a ~150 mile range Leaf could be built today simply by undertaking a radical repackaging of the car like BMW did with the i3.
Nissan! Give me a super-aerodynamic carbon-fiber composite bodied car with leaf running gear & rear wheel drive :)

BMW already have proved that there's no need to conform to ICE car design norms.
 

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Hmm, here's an interesting fact...

As shown above, the Leaf has 48 modules, each module weighing 3.8kg, so a total of 182.4kg for the modules in the pack (pack weight 249kgs)

A quick google gives me a weight of 45.5g for a Panasonic 18650 cell (like in the Model S). That means that 182kg of these cells would be 4000 cells. There are 7000, 18650 cells in the 85kWh Tesla pack, so 4000 cells would be 4/7 of 85kWh, which is... about 48.5kWh

So it is possible!
 

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Well if you are going to resurrect a thread I'll join in. My last 3 cars prior to i3 were Nissans (Navarra, X-Trail and Juke).

Make me a 370EVZ please. I'm ready for a mid life crisis. No one is doing the Electric sports coupe yet. 2 seats. It's a niche Nissan could own. At least ill BMW come out with an i3 coupe. Though these days it would be called an i4. They need a halo car to sell the "lesser" models.

That - or a 60kWh Quashquai would get me away from a Telsa Model 3. And get me to flog the (unused since I bought the i3) X-Trail.

No range extender just 60kWH and 100 kW rapid. With inputs in the frunk for CHAdeMO, CCS and Superchargers.
 

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LOL. Just had a look 370Z is £27-37k. Pretty sure Nissan could come up with something in the i3 price range! But don't know about a 60kWH battery. Still why not go REX? 30kWh and a nice little petrol motor to get the petrol heads out of their ICEs? Just beef up the REX a bit to cope with motorway cruising and you'd have an i3 beater. Yeah BEV is best, so give people the build option. 30kWh with REX for people on lower budgets, £27k. And the 60kWh BEV for big spenders.
I think most EVs are bought as coimmutter cars so the lack of seats isn't going to put people off.
 
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