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They must be very upset. Years of being told there will be no checks at the border and frictionless trade and now Gove is telling them this was inevitable and everyone knew that in 2016.
 

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They must be very upset. Years of being told there will be no checks at the border and frictionless trade and now Gove is telling them this was inevitable and everyone knew that in 2016.
Except its the Barnier and co that are choosing to impose barriers for political reasons that are likely to hurt the EU more than the UK given the massive surplus they have with the UK. The UK is certainly open to a free trade deal like the one with Canada.
 

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Yes and you are going to have to own that when these guys lose their jobs. It's your mess now.
Highly unlikely they are going to lose their jobs and best is yet to come in terms of new job creation now that we are free of the EU. But keep doomongering if that makes you happy and feel free to go over there as you think it’s so much better than here. Deal with it - we’re out no matter how many times you keep rehashing the old discredited Project Fear arguments.
 

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Well that's the problem, I'm not free to go over there any more. You took that freedom away from everyone.

Of course if it turns out great you can claim credit for that too. It's all on you now, good or bad.
 

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Why can’t folk move on from this endless blame game - it’s really boring. We don’t know for sure what Nissan will do. In another thread I posted there were newspaper reports that one scenario Nissan has been looking at is concentrating more production at Sunderland. If we end up with tariffs then it is possible that more cars will be produced for the local market and fewer for exports. We should not immediately respond to statements made by either the U.K. or the EU during a negotiating period. Neither side holds all the best cards in this game of poker. In the meantime businesses will make decisions based on a variety of factors. Honda, once Japan had negotiated its deal with the EU decided to close its plant. But Honda has been suffering with a poor model mix for a number of years. Nissan despite lots being negative have a top ten seller in the UK and the Leaf has sold well.
If we end up with tariffs with the EU, it will be EU based manufacturers that will suffer as much U.K. based ones. There is a trade in cars deficit of several billion and the Germans are particularly vulnerable. Add 20% to the price of Mercs, BMWs and VW Group products would see U.K. based consumers switch to other brands. That is why companies like Kia are looking to increase sales in the U.K. (its biggest market in Europe). Their CEO recently said he wants to sell 9,000 EVs a year up from 700 sales last year. The Chinese and perhaps India will take a larger share.
Of course tariffs work both ways and JLR may end up shifting more production to Europe.
Overall, the U.K. has now to look more positively and confidently at how it trades not just with Europe but markets beyond. Yes it will be tough but it is not all stacked in favour of the EU.
 

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Well that's the problem, I'm not free to go over there any more. You took that freedom away from everyone.

Of course if it turns out great you can claim credit for that too. It's all on you now, good or bad.
Yawn. Victimhood mentality.
 

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That's very easy to say when you are not the victim. If you lose your job to brexit you may well be wondering who is to blame for that.
No more than you can say it is because of a single decision. Just as economists can’t say if our growth would have been better or worse if we had not joined the EU and have no idea what will happen in the future.
I am not arguing one way or another if leaving the EU was a good idea. But in a democracy there comes a point when you have to accept the decision and the consequences of that decision and move on. In moving on it is more likely you will be successful if you you take a positive view. The people of Sunderland voted to leave. Nissan is part of their landscape and is a significant employer. They have made the car plant one of the most efficient in Europe. So time will tell if they were right to vote the way they did.
 

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No more than you can say it is because of a single decision.
I can say with 100% certainly that the company I work for is laying off 11 people, including me, directly and only because of brexit.

I don't know how many knock-on job losses that has resulted in but this week I've had to tell our circuit board supplier that if they can't certify their boards with a CE mark in the EU then we will have to drop them, and in the mean time I'm supposed to be finding an alternative outside the UK. We already switching to buying most of our actuators from Italy instead of the UK.
 

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I can say with 100% certainly that the company I work for is laying off 11 people, including me, directly and only because of brexit.

I don't know how many knock-on job losses that has resulted in but this week I've had to tell our circuit board supplier that if they can't certify their boards with a CE mark in the EU then we will have to drop them, and in the mean time I'm supposed to be finding an alternative outside the UK. We already switching to buying most of our actuators from Italy instead of the UK.
I was referring to Nissan not your personal situation. I am genuinely sorry if you and your colleagues are being made redundant. There will be impacts for companies but that doesn’t mean they all are going to be negative ones.
 

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I read heard somewhere last week that Nissan had told Europe if tariffs came in between EU and uk that they would close europe plants moving production to uk to undercut the European manufactures by avoiding tariffs.
Here are two different reports on that same story.



Which one chooses to believe will depend on one’s take on Brexit. We really don’t know what will happen.
 

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Here are two different reports on that same story.



Which one chooses to believe will depend on one’s take on Brexit. We really don’t know what will happen.
They seem to be saying the same thing?
 

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The seem to be saying the same thing?
Ostensibly, yes, but while both report the same story, one paints a gloomy picture


A Nissan spokesman said on Monday: “We deny such a contingency plan exists. We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO [World Trade Organization] tariffs
.”

while the other includes positive comments such as

“Meanwhile, it would dramatically beef up production in the UK at its giant Sunderland plant.”

”Under the plans – said to have been drawn up late last year – bosses believe they could eventually sell one in five cars in the UK – increasing their market share from 4 per cent to 20 per cent.”

”The rationale for this plan – if it exists – is fairly simple. If Johnson fails to secure the Canada-style free-trade deal with the EU that he is seeking, the UK could revert to World Trade Organisation rules.

This would mean swingeing tariffs of 10 per cent on cars sold from the UK to the EU and vice versa, as well as taxes on car parts.

The punitive regime would give Nissan the edge over car makers that import to Britain, such as Volkswagen, BMW and Ford.”

”Nissan has invested more than £4billion in its Sunderland site, which produces the Qashqai, Juke and electric models and is its most efficient plant outside of Japan.”


While much of the content is the same I have attempted to highlight the differences between the two stories.
 

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Highly unlikely they are going to lose their jobs and best is yet to come in terms of new job creation now that we are free of the EU. But keep doomongering if that makes you happy and feel free to go over there as you think it’s so much better than here. Deal with it - we’re out no matter how many times you keep rehashing the old discredited Project Fear arguments.
Repeat unverifiable opinion that flies in the face of experts and evidence, as though repeating your opinion louder and more offensively proves you are right.

Dismiss the arguments of anyone who dares to disagree with you by repeating meaningless slogans and then resort to offensive, personal insults.

You have told us everything we need to know about you.


“If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through”
 

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To complicate matters with facts so far on the table, since Brexit vote:

Honda Swindon closure announced
Ford South Wales closure announced
Nissan moved X-trail production out of the UK

All major manufacturers warned that loss of current seamless trading terms with EU would mean closure of UK manufacturing

SMMT estimated cost of no deal Brexit on car manufacturers at £40bn by 2024

UK government forced to subsidise Nissan and BMW to not close remaining production.

Tesla explicitly stated European manufacture centre chosen in Germany not UK due to Brexit Elon Musk says Brexit made him decide against Tesla electric car Gigafactory in UK

Toyota haven’t announced closure yet but warned they will in a no-deal Brexit Brexit: Toyota warns its UK plants in jeopardy under no-deal

That is all volume car production either closing or being bribed to temporarily stay open.


But people relying on their jobs to feed their families shouldn’t worry, because some bloke on the internet has got some slogans and in his opinion Brexit is going to be great.

Forgive us if those of us watching jobs and talented staff leave the UK don’t share your enthusiasm, or find your offensive posts funny.
 

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”Under the plans – said to have been drawn up late last year – bosses believe they could eventually sell one in five cars in the UK – increasing their market share from 4 per cent to 20 per cent.”
The rest of the EU market is over 6 times bigger than the UK market. So Nissan would have to increase sales by over 6 times to make up for the loss of the EU. Well okay they wouldn't lose it completely, they might still get some sales there. But imagine if your future depended on sales increasing 4 or 5 fold in a couple of years, you would be looking for a new job already.

That doesn't sound like a real plan especially when Japan is already demanding the same zero tariffs on car imports as it has with the EU.
 
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